The Jamaican whose job for more than two decades was to watch - up close - the world's best cricketers at work has painted a damning picture of the recent crop of West Indies players and administrators.
Retired international umpire Steve Bucknor is also doubtful the region's once formidable team, which he says is now littered with money-hungry, prideless players, can return among cricket's elite soon.
"There is no problem as far as they (the players) are concerned," said Bucknor, who stood in 128 Test matches between 1989 and 2009, including 26 in the West Indies. "I can see it. Once they are making money, (they) will play."
Bucknor suggested a change in the system of compensation.
"When they play, there should be an incentive base," he explained while here to receive an award for his contribution to sports on December 4.
"When you do well, you get paid. When you don't do well, you can't get paid. So, you now must perform to be recognised properly, and that is not happening." Read More
Bucknor lashes WICB, players
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mapoui
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well said...mostly!
but for years I have been saying exactly the same wbout westindies cricket. why are we hiring forrin coaches when we have created what Bucknor calls " the westindian way of cricket"
that is as brilliant now as when I used to point out that the westindies has forged the very greatest of all the cricket traditons out there and we need no one to teach us anything about the game.
what we have to do now as then is to harness our game, develop it fully using our people at all levels. we must innovate on our own base. and if others have developed and introduced new ways to the game that are clearly general advances, we are free to use those advances, modified to our own conditions and national style...as others have used what we have developed ourselves
that was MAPOUI from the start of this 'forrin' coach fiasco, insisted on by the misleaders at the cost of millions of dollars that wud have been far, far, far, better spent on the development of academy.
this again is MAPOUI, recently here.. yesterday as a matter of fact.. talking about the provision of parks for the westindian people to play by the regional governments, in which there would be cricket grounds and full kit provided free and accessable to all kids who want to play..kept and maintained at the park facilites by officials paid by the government...regular park workers.
such development wud ensure cricket spreads and all can play...girls as well as boys.
cricket has the benefit of its own season during which soccer is not played. cricket in the westidies is dry season sport..soccer, for the rainy season.
there is much overlapping now but that basic frame remains, and constitutes an advantage the wicb can use to develop interest among youth to counter soccer and athletics, basketball etc
but I am confident the wicb knows all this, that in their successive administrations they have been aware of all that we talk about and more, of all that is needed for the development and maintaince of cricket success at all levels through the 'westindian way'
but my argument has consistently been that that is precisely what the wicb wants to destroy... which is why the wicb have been, as consistently, doing exactly what is required to destroy, not develop the ' THE WESTINDIAN WAY of cricket
but for years I have been saying exactly the same wbout westindies cricket. why are we hiring forrin coaches when we have created what Bucknor calls " the westindian way of cricket"
that is as brilliant now as when I used to point out that the westindies has forged the very greatest of all the cricket traditons out there and we need no one to teach us anything about the game.
what we have to do now as then is to harness our game, develop it fully using our people at all levels. we must innovate on our own base. and if others have developed and introduced new ways to the game that are clearly general advances, we are free to use those advances, modified to our own conditions and national style...as others have used what we have developed ourselves
that was MAPOUI from the start of this 'forrin' coach fiasco, insisted on by the misleaders at the cost of millions of dollars that wud have been far, far, far, better spent on the development of academy.
this again is MAPOUI, recently here.. yesterday as a matter of fact.. talking about the provision of parks for the westindian people to play by the regional governments, in which there would be cricket grounds and full kit provided free and accessable to all kids who want to play..kept and maintained at the park facilites by officials paid by the government...regular park workers.
such development wud ensure cricket spreads and all can play...girls as well as boys.
cricket has the benefit of its own season during which soccer is not played. cricket in the westidies is dry season sport..soccer, for the rainy season.
there is much overlapping now but that basic frame remains, and constitutes an advantage the wicb can use to develop interest among youth to counter soccer and athletics, basketball etc
but I am confident the wicb knows all this, that in their successive administrations they have been aware of all that we talk about and more, of all that is needed for the development and maintaince of cricket success at all levels through the 'westindian way'
but my argument has consistently been that that is precisely what the wicb wants to destroy... which is why the wicb have been, as consistently, doing exactly what is required to destroy, not develop the ' THE WESTINDIAN WAY of cricket
Last edited by mapoui on Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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mikesiva
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Bucknor is saying a lot of truths that are hard to swallow....
"(The problem) is from the bottom up," said the 65-year-old from Montego Bay. "I don't think enough persons are playing cricket in the West Indies. So there's not the love for cricket. We'll do well, but I do believe that the board must think seriously. We need academies around the West Indies. Every island should have their own academy, and there should be a West Indian way to play. In other words, there must be the coaches who coach the West Indian way and think about exactly what they're doing. (Players) must be taught how to play properly. And this, I think, is the biggest drawback. Not enough support is there for cricket. But the West Indies (Cricket) Board can make it happen. I don't think they are thinking in that direction at all."
And this....
"They're batting, nobody is able to pass your bat. Suddenly, you want to play all your shots and your team needs you to remain at the crease." According to Bucknor, West Indies' recent teams are so damaged by failure they no longer recognise success. "You're never on top in any game," an astonished Bucknor said. "How can you make 590 runs (in the first innings of last month's drawn third Test against India) in one innings and you're close to losing a game? "So we don't understand that by making 590 runs we're not losing, we're nearer to winning. But we didn't know that."
These are all issues that I find deeply disturbing too....
'He doesn't, however, see a quick turnaround for the team which once ruled world cricket, but is now ranked seventh out of nine Test playing nations; eighth of 13 in ODIs; and eighth of 10 in T20. "No," said Bucknor, "not the near future."'
"(The problem) is from the bottom up," said the 65-year-old from Montego Bay. "I don't think enough persons are playing cricket in the West Indies. So there's not the love for cricket. We'll do well, but I do believe that the board must think seriously. We need academies around the West Indies. Every island should have their own academy, and there should be a West Indian way to play. In other words, there must be the coaches who coach the West Indian way and think about exactly what they're doing. (Players) must be taught how to play properly. And this, I think, is the biggest drawback. Not enough support is there for cricket. But the West Indies (Cricket) Board can make it happen. I don't think they are thinking in that direction at all."
And this....
"They're batting, nobody is able to pass your bat. Suddenly, you want to play all your shots and your team needs you to remain at the crease." According to Bucknor, West Indies' recent teams are so damaged by failure they no longer recognise success. "You're never on top in any game," an astonished Bucknor said. "How can you make 590 runs (in the first innings of last month's drawn third Test against India) in one innings and you're close to losing a game? "So we don't understand that by making 590 runs we're not losing, we're nearer to winning. But we didn't know that."
These are all issues that I find deeply disturbing too....
'He doesn't, however, see a quick turnaround for the team which once ruled world cricket, but is now ranked seventh out of nine Test playing nations; eighth of 13 in ODIs; and eighth of 10 in T20. "No," said Bucknor, "not the near future."'
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mapoui
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- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:07 pm
where Bucknor is wrong is in not atributing the change in player attitude to general social change lets say, the drung the fifty years in which our success and failure in cricket took place..from Worrell to Sammy currently.
Bucknor himself is a product of a westindies that gave us independence and the struggle for independence, as well as our great cricketers and great citizens in all fields of endeafvour.
the westindies was of a certain of attitude , social ambition out of our historical experience, that produced people, born into the struggle for blac dignity globally, and general freedom in the world for peoples of colour, who extended that fight and 'won' the chance to go forward, deepen and achieve total liberation for all people of colour in the world
by the 1980s the world had changed for the worse, the ordinary people were being totally corrupted, money and god/religion became intellectual pincers of human corruption. money had to be had by all, sung to the high heavens as the arbiter of life. everyone had to have mone and ultimately it did nto matter how it was got.
but that was inteded to hook people on an endless chase of money, which they wud never succeed in getting for the system was rigged.
the banks with fractional reseve banking and total control of the money supply, creating new money only through debt were in full authority over money. they had it all and by price manipulation, legislatively reducing unions and so salaries, made sure that the people lost value constantly... so that no matter what they did they cud not get rich and ultinately all the money woudl end up in the hand of the bankers...as it has.
there is nothing anyone can do to make money and keep it as long s they live in the world. the harder they work the more the bankers make..literally for nothing. even criminal activity must go through the banks if it is to be successful and from that th banksy absorb all they can..if not all ultimately
and as the westindies was scroaked of money the education system changed to 'dummin down' and even those who study westindian history come out not knowing westindian history, so corrupt the education has become.
so now westindian youth have not progressed socially over the generations that gave us Viv and ultimately Lara..they have regressed in fact. bour current generations are now stupid and miseducated as no westindian generation prior to their arrival has ever been.
numerically there are more degrees walking the streets and a lot more westindian youth are at least touched by formal education. but thats the problem. the education is crap and meant to produce fools and incompetents.
and those are the youth that Bucknor encounted and describes their intellectual and emotional inconsistentcy. what else did he expect from the westindies they way it has come to be. the westindies does not work in the interest of westindians anymore, however little it may have functioned in this way in the past.
in indpendence westindians have lost even that little bit of room, that measure of freedom in which we struggled for more. we do not strugle for anything anymore, save for money in a rigged and losing effort. after all the years, generations of hardwork and effort, the people are poorer and moe stupid than ever.... and do not have a clue as to why
the region is totally controleld by forriners, the old slave masters wh have found a new way to enslave..debt financing.
but in the meantime through thier corruption and control of our governments, deh have poisoned the education, the water,and the air, the ground and the sea around us. the caribbean sea is now a filty soup of pollution. very little regional food is produced for and by the people, and even that, along with the food on supermarket shelves is poisoned.
KFC, McDonalds, Wendys etc., abound around the westindes poisoning the youth, and the people are proud of that, because the region now looks like america. incredible!
Bucknor himself is a product of a westindies that gave us independence and the struggle for independence, as well as our great cricketers and great citizens in all fields of endeafvour.
the westindies was of a certain of attitude , social ambition out of our historical experience, that produced people, born into the struggle for blac dignity globally, and general freedom in the world for peoples of colour, who extended that fight and 'won' the chance to go forward, deepen and achieve total liberation for all people of colour in the world
by the 1980s the world had changed for the worse, the ordinary people were being totally corrupted, money and god/religion became intellectual pincers of human corruption. money had to be had by all, sung to the high heavens as the arbiter of life. everyone had to have mone and ultimately it did nto matter how it was got.
but that was inteded to hook people on an endless chase of money, which they wud never succeed in getting for the system was rigged.
the banks with fractional reseve banking and total control of the money supply, creating new money only through debt were in full authority over money. they had it all and by price manipulation, legislatively reducing unions and so salaries, made sure that the people lost value constantly... so that no matter what they did they cud not get rich and ultinately all the money woudl end up in the hand of the bankers...as it has.
there is nothing anyone can do to make money and keep it as long s they live in the world. the harder they work the more the bankers make..literally for nothing. even criminal activity must go through the banks if it is to be successful and from that th banksy absorb all they can..if not all ultimately
and as the westindies was scroaked of money the education system changed to 'dummin down' and even those who study westindian history come out not knowing westindian history, so corrupt the education has become.
so now westindian youth have not progressed socially over the generations that gave us Viv and ultimately Lara..they have regressed in fact. bour current generations are now stupid and miseducated as no westindian generation prior to their arrival has ever been.
numerically there are more degrees walking the streets and a lot more westindian youth are at least touched by formal education. but thats the problem. the education is crap and meant to produce fools and incompetents.
and those are the youth that Bucknor encounted and describes their intellectual and emotional inconsistentcy. what else did he expect from the westindies they way it has come to be. the westindies does not work in the interest of westindians anymore, however little it may have functioned in this way in the past.
in indpendence westindians have lost even that little bit of room, that measure of freedom in which we struggled for more. we do not strugle for anything anymore, save for money in a rigged and losing effort. after all the years, generations of hardwork and effort, the people are poorer and moe stupid than ever.... and do not have a clue as to why
the region is totally controleld by forriners, the old slave masters wh have found a new way to enslave..debt financing.
but in the meantime through thier corruption and control of our governments, deh have poisoned the education, the water,and the air, the ground and the sea around us. the caribbean sea is now a filty soup of pollution. very little regional food is produced for and by the people, and even that, along with the food on supermarket shelves is poisoned.
KFC, McDonalds, Wendys etc., abound around the westindes poisoning the youth, and the people are proud of that, because the region now looks like america. incredible!
Last edited by mapoui on Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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mapoui
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Googley wrote:this is a gobal economy/market! no boundaries...bring in the best talent!
second, we had the best "local" coach employed! When he was fired (or asked to resign) WI went downhill from there. The board did NOT back him up!
that is absolute nonsense googley...and dangerous nonsense at that.
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Googley
- Posts: 5465
- Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:05 pm
just cause you said its nonsense? explain why.mapoui wrote:Googley wrote:this is a gobal economy/market! no boundaries...bring in the best talent!
second, we had the best "local" coach employed! When he was fired (or asked to resign) WI went downhill from there. The board did NOT back him up!
that is absolute nonsense googley...and dangerous nonsense at that.
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mapoui
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- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:07 pm
I have to explain why?
there are riots everywhere in the world against globalisation, the destrution of cultures, all manner of shit this globalisation from the to down casuing and yu come up with your nonsense.
there are all kinds of movements fomed and forming against the very thing yu shouting about. the world is up in arms against and you are shouting about it.
wat are you some kind of billionaires son unlike the rest of us all threatened by these developments from the top down?
there are riots everywhere in the world against globalisation, the destrution of cultures, all manner of shit this globalisation from the to down casuing and yu come up with your nonsense.
there are all kinds of movements fomed and forming against the very thing yu shouting about. the world is up in arms against and you are shouting about it.
wat are you some kind of billionaires son unlike the rest of us all threatened by these developments from the top down?
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Googley
- Posts: 5465
- Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:05 pm
mapoui wrote:I have to explain why?
there are riots everywhere in the world against globalisation, the destrution of cultures, all manner of shit this globalisation from the to down casuing and yu come up with your nonsense.
there are all kinds of movements fomed and forming against the very thing yu shouting about. the world is up in arms against and you are shouting about it.
wat are you some kind of billionaires son unlike the rest of us all threatened by these developments from the top down?
so don't get the best talent? is that what you wanted? Well, you got your wish in a West Indian...OPIS!!!! hahahahaha!
