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The Limits to Growth

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The Limits to Growth

Postby Gils » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:53 am

Crickets come a long way since 1985/6…bouncers, third umpires, video replays, fielding restrictions, day night matches, pink and white balls, associate world cups, T20, big bats, internet and cable TV, empty stadiums, batting and bowling coaches, foreign appointments, increased media scrutiny, big money sponsors, cricket millionaires etc.

Some things though, like three stumps and two bails at each end, are destined to remain the same.

BWICBC administrators have already admitted that funding for stadium and training facilities in every one of its member states falls under the jurisdiction of the national governments, they also concede education of nationals from school to U15 level is also the responsibility of the regional governments.

Additionally the big eIDjaT himself, only last month accepted his private organisation have a handicap compared to all other ICC members because unlike their sovereign opponents, BWICBC cannot access funds from a sports ministry.

Of late, the Antiguan government have made every conceivable concession to help address this imbalance and resuscitate BWICBC’s flagging operation, as a result Coolidge – in all but name – is now the venue of preference for the majority of their fixtures.

Hosting matches in one location both logistically and financially is sound practice, although historically that suggestion has been fiercely opposed when accompanied by talk of going it alone….from those very same people who today champion the idea as innovative.

The Antigua governments enthusiasm, however detrimental to others member’s chances of obtaining a fair share of their own tourist dollars, is not found among the general population, who stay away.

For two decades, dwindling interest and a shi**y product has accompanied their fall down the rankings till today, their invitational XI is no longer guaranteed automatic entry into any of ICC’s gala events. Hopefully, the shortfall in income will force some sort of change at factories rd, operationally or otherwise but I won’t count on it. Change, if any, is more likely to be forced on them from outside.

Chasing after T20 loan fees and tourist dollars during high season is not against the law but at some stage you realise each member has a national government that is ideally suited to meet the needs of its own tourist industry….and its sports agencies.

Today’s reality is BWI cricketers are fully extended by associates who finances are ringfenced by the ICC, have a clear pathway to full member status and are allowed the chance to compete at the biggest ICC event.

30 years ago there were no such opportunities for associates so those can be added to the long list of changes. Pending entry into the list of things that will remain the same is a BWI president who explains the sovereign benefits Ireland, Afghanistan and Scotland have over his private corporation 30 years from now….#rally
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Re: The Limits to Growth

Postby mikesiva » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:12 am

At the Super50, the crowds were disappointing in Antigua. In contrast, the crowds in Zimbabwe have been good. There's a huge, loud, singing crowd at Harare for the home team's game against UAE.
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Re: The Limits to Growth

Postby Gils » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:59 pm

The WCQ for associates has financial mechanisms behind it which guarantee spectator interest, throw in a bit of nationalist sentiment and boom.

Their enthusiam was so refreshing, you could see even some BWI players was feeling the vibes.

The Super 50 provides nothing for the 6 regional bodies in comparison to what the ICC has laid out for the associates.....it would take free to air coverage throughout the region in order to achieve an equivalent level of engagement.

Relying on foreigners to set aside dates in their holiday schedule for cricket may work for international fixtures, domestically that strategy has flopped.

This understanding leads us back to, why do no real caribbeans attend BWI cricket.....

As we've just witnessed, the association format is now televised globally, with a gala event in its own right which attracted numerous brands only too willing to take advantage of the opportunities that platform brings.

Weather its a genuine concern for the good of the game or a just cynical ICC ploy to fill the calender with dates that stifle the spread of T20 leagues, a second tier has well and truly been established and its flourishing.
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Re: The Limits to Growth

Postby mikesiva » Wed May 02, 2018 5:27 am

Gils wrote:
For two decades, dwindling interest and a shi**y product has accompanied their fall down the rankings till today, their invitational XI is no longer guaranteed automatic entry into any of ICC’s gala events. Hopefully, the shortfall in income will force some sort of change at factories rd, operationally or otherwise but I won’t count on it. Change, if any, is more likely to be forced on them from outside.


That fall down the rankings continues....

https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/me ... kings/test

The 'C' team has hit a new low, now ranked NINTH in the Test rankings, below Bangladesh.
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Re: The Limits to Growth

Postby Gils » Mon May 07, 2018 5:28 pm

mikesiva wrote:
Gils wrote:
For two decades, dwindling interest and a shi**y product has accompanied their fall down the rankings till today, their invitational XI is no longer guaranteed automatic entry into any of ICC’s gala events. Hopefully, the shortfall in income will force some sort of change at factories rd, operationally or otherwise but I won’t count on it. Change, if any, is more likely to be forced on them from outside.


That fall down the rankings continues....

https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/me ... kings/test"

The 'C' team has hit a new low, now ranked NINTH in the Test rankings, below Bangladesh.


Its not unexpected or much by way of competitive value, at all, at all. BWI invitational XI struggled with Zimbabwe and didnt earn any rankings points #pointless

So now....who,exactly,cares.....and is in a postion to do something about it...BWI's administrative staff number over 60, surely observers dont believe one person alone could overcome its additional customs allowances and import tax waivering culture :?:
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Re: The Limits to Growth

Postby Gils » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:26 pm

...,a culture that branches out beyond BWICBC's secretariat to affect the very same fans who claim to love Caribbean cricket dearly.

Loving BWI cricket indeed, as they wish to celebrate the day their latest favored hot prospect earns a contract to county cricket, as a final stepping stone in development prior to the international honours which follow.

Hoping England sort out the flaws CWI recieve ICC money to fix. The inherent limit to growth.

Ignoring the low rate of success for this victorian finishing school approach to BWI ills, who among you prefers the *international BWI product above the BWI's domestic S50 & R4D offerings :?:

Why is that, is it because S50 & R4D are shi**y products....with little investment, poor officiating, terrible broadcasts, few accomplised performers and - given the consistent spectator absence & the inconsistent nature of selection policy - no apparent purpose.

Do you also regard England as the finishing school for Caribbean players :?:

You see where this is going....no, well thats probably because you dont want to acknowledge the link between the *international selct XI and the two domestic competitions which feed it....so I will remind you, all CWI players have developed in the S50 & R4D competitions you've neglected, like an unwanted step child....how did that work out for you...

Today, when BWICBC speaks of revenue streams, upcoming tours, broadcast deals, sponsorship, rankings & world cups etc it is solely in relation to the *international select XI, while the S50 & R4D's wonder where the next pennies are coming from.

Such a, fur coat and no knickers method of operation cant last, isnt unifying anyone, does nothing for profits (of a private company), hasn't fixed a broken domestic set up but is responsible for the select XI's fall down the ICC rankings & the decline in spectator attendance to domestic cricket.

You - the fans - by your silent compliance have helped create this circumstance, how you feel about this truth is your choice but the issue remains, S50 & R4D have been mistreated to the point of neglect.

Further, If Jamaica, or any of the other five associations, disregarded domestic competition the way BWICBC over the last 20 years you would accuse them of being insular :!:

So you're definitely part of the problem.
Last edited by Gils on Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:20 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: The Limits to Growth

Postby Gils » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:52 pm

Bonus fast bowling points on slow and low wickets but no increased financial incentive for the winner of the S50 or R4D. I thought cricket was supposed to be a collective effort...Cosmectic change is no change #disrepute

This idea is supposed to encourage fast bowlers, with no apparent reward for their efforts.....

Remind me how many of the current bunch havent broken down in the last three years :?:

Do you think it might have something to do with the playing surfaces......better yet, how do fast bowling points improve batsmen.......I'll wait......

A new report by the CWI advocates money from the International Cricket Council being allocated more equitably between countries, broadcasting rights being pooled, away teams receiving a share of home broadcasting rights for series and major global events being shared between more countries.


BWICBC voted in agreement with these very same terms in 2014. Who are they fooling :?:

BWICBC licenced out the T20 competition prior to 2014, today they deny the regions best T20 club teams the right to compete in a Canadain T20 club tournament, but feel confident enough to discuss equitable sharing with ICC :?:

BWICBC, who rejected numerous governance reports feel qualified to speak about structure...

There are also calls for the Indian Premier League to do more to compensate Full Members during the tournament.


Surely they arent going after more of the best players money.......

The services of many competent sports agents can be found the world over simply enough, by both male and female sports persons. What makes a deal with CWI any sweeter :?:

Regarding governance, are CWI an IPL players agent or a financial imperative within each one of the 15 members states :?: , because tourist boards arent in the business of leasing players & CWI seem to enjoy an unfair trading advantage over all agencies the world over, none of whom are permitted to field a team on any international stage.

If more money is allocated to the governing bodies when their players appear in IPL, will BWICBC equitably compensate all their 15 partners in line with this increase :?:

Is acting as an IPL players agent a *sustainable business model, how does being an agent improve the teams competitive value, how does it resolve CWI differences with Caricome or enable the select XI to promote West Indian unity :?:

The poor standard of pitches, absence of speed guns, video technology, spectators & prize money within S50 & R4D is not 'conducive to producing optimum outcomes' but still they have mout to talk down the ICC revenue split they voted in favor of. :roll:

As their major benefactor you might think CWI would behave more gratefully to the ICC, after all, which other sports body would even consider a West Indian *select XI onto the international stage......

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/201 ... ve-future/"
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Re: The Limits to Growth

Postby Gils » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:01 am

which other sports body would even consider a West Indian *select XI onto the international stage......


By your own standards of investigation these global sports bodies would qualify as insular. #chupes
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Re: The Limits to Growth

Postby Gils » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:22 pm

:?: If BWICBC staff numbered 20 in 1985, then 40 in 2000 reaching 60 + in 2018, how many staff will it employ by 2030.....remember, only 11 players take the field at anyone time.

" We need performance centers in every territory with professional facilities and staff "

O kayyy, You expect governments to make this expensive commitment with no financial reward... the same governments who were told have no say in BWICBC cricket....Alright, lets say they did, whats stopping any of them from administering these academies from central government, they already have sports ministries in place for this very purpose further, nothing in BWICBC history suggests they have the where with all to manage said duties proficiently.

Isn't asking for academy's in every territory an acknowledgment to evolution occurring locally, if resurrecting BWICBC's shi**y product out of the trough is a national effort then there's no other word to label it as but Nationalism......wouldn't that be the opportune time to give the people back their cricket :?:

Today, we see the select XI presently in Bangladesh have many technical failings which simply returning to domestic competition will not resolve.

We have had a number of withdrawals in recent times and it has severely impacted on the Selection Panel’s ability to choose a settled squad for international matches,” said Adams.


The BWICBC select XI have used only 7 batsmen in Tests this year, K Brathwaite, K Powell, D Smith, S Hope, R Chase, S Ambris and S Hetmyer, so we can conclude they have the settled team MR Adams alluded to.

When we consider J Blackwood was dropped for averaging 25 over a period of ten Tests - then sent back to domestic competition to resolve issues neither PCL or S50 can remedy, while half the batsmen of the *settled team could do no better given the same number of matches we get a true sense of the bureaucratic conundrum.

#forward #rally

........11/6/2019

After losing to Australia in the CWC the cry " We need performance centers in every territory with professional facilities and staff " has once again been revived. Are you surprised, performance centers have been a theme since the 1990's.

The manner of defeat, brainless shots, a run out, a vital dropped catch & poor game awareness gives the argument credibility.

Over almost 30 yrs there have been attempts but all centers have floundered for the same reason, lack of finance. Having all been funded by the private sector with local Governments contributing access to facilities, tax waivers & favorable customs charges, it is not unreasonable to say this method will always be doomed to fail.

Idealistically, a centralized approach to player development which creates identical cricketers all across the region would be as successful as one which could develop identical citizens all across the region.

This shows us development occurs locally, a simple study of nature can confirm this....the fauna and flora of your particular Island is unique, to your particular Island.

Further, leptodactylus fallax, Crapuad or Mountain chicken, once a native throughout the region is now only found in Dominica and Montserrat.

It was unsuccessfully reintroduced to Puerto Rico & Jamaica, long departed from the islands of St Kitts, Nevis, Martinique & Guadeloupe and it is believed to have once also inhabited Antigua & St Lucia.

The survival of this creature needs no embellishment and as a case study little extrapolation.

.....2/7/19.... This was the 2015 CWC squad

Sulieman Benn, Jonathan Carter, **Johnson Charles, Sheldon Cottrell, Chris Gayle, Jason Holder (capt), *Nikita Miller, Denesh Ramdin (wk), Kemar Roach, Andre Russell, Darren Sammy, Marlon Samuels, Lendl Simmons, Dwayne Smith, Jerome Taylor.

*replaced the withdrawn Sunil Narine, **replaced the injured Darren Bravo.

Nikita Miller, Denesh Ramdin, Darren Sammy, Marlon Samuels, Lendl Simmons, Dwayne Smith Johnson Charles, Jerome Taylor & Sulieman Benn were all consigned to history, some unceremoniously. Deemed unsuitable for purpose. You all can decide weather or not these were all sensible omissions, especially in light of the teams lack of a spinner & experienced middle order batsmen.

Jonathan Carter, with no apparent upside, remains lodged to the priority eat a food list since 2015..sort of like a Raymon Riefer Mk 1.

Sheldon Cottrell, Chris Gayle, Kemar Roach and Jason Holder, having been retained from 2015, were the experienced players, who could lend support to the youngsters in the 2019 squad.

Gayle and Roach, both made good contributions on the field but not enough to make the semi finals or move the team past ranking 9th in ODI's.

Jason Holder has not lived up to the acclaim which followed his appointment, not in a single element of his game.

Sunil Narine, it appears, will always have other arrangements during CWC's.

Darren Bravo, although now considered an experienced campaigner, has not realized in international cricket the potential which a once 50+ Test avg hinted at. A peripheral figure now with little impact on this event, testimony to bwicbc taking good players and turning them bad.

Andre Russell played just 3 ODI's since 2015, was deemed fit & selected in spite of prior injury concerns. He made a strong contribution in the teams only victory but literally had to be carried for another three matches before being withdrawn and sent for surgery.

I hope there is a suitable rehabilitation arrangement in those contracts or he might end up paying the costs out of his own pocket....just like former bwicbc players - who weren't fortunate enough to have T20 money aiding their recoveries.

Sunil Ambris, at 26, made his debut ODI in 2017 and has played 8 ODI's, Fabian Allen at 24, made his ODI debut in 2018, he has played 8 ODI's. Although not setting the world alight they haven't disappointed, their limited number of appearances forces me to withhold any conclusive determinations. I would note however, their lack of experience points to an absence of forward planning.

Now ask yourself, how is it 2019's best bowler & biggest plus in the field Sheldon Cottrell, had played a total of 14 ODI's before this years CWC...could it be Bwicbc didn't plan for him to be there either....

23 year old Nicolas Pooran, the best batsman on show, has already suffered a period of exclusion from bwicbc teams for perceived infractions...so how well can he flourish under their guidance in the next four years.....

With 100 plus T 20's abroad to his name but only 19 list A & 3 fc class appearances, it's difficult to claim bwicbc have played any major part in his development, there's certainly been no significant financial expense.

Shannon Gabriel, who didn't appear in 2015, has played just 22 ODI's, he hardly featured in this tournament, was expensive with little success, no contribution with the bat or in the field.

Oshane Thomas, raw with lots of pace, which vanish'e after his first spell, needs improved fitness conditioning. Has a poor run up, plus NB and wide issues. This is basic stuff.

Carlos Braithwaite, what can I say which hasn't already been said. I would not advocate for him and Holder in the same XI, make a choice, if either, and stop hedging.

Shai Hope, after 50 ODI's still has unanswered questions.

Shimron Hetmyer appears to have a number of shots for every delivery.... but needs attention to the cerebral elements of the game. A much more difficult proposition to basic fitness, so what do bwicbc have in place to resolve this....the PCL, Super 50 cricket........

I doubt it, unlike the international arena domestic cricket has no punishment for bad game management, faulty technique, dropped catches, bad umpiring, dumb ass run outs, missed stumping's, brainless shot selection, slinging, miss fields, NB's or wide's.

Time will reveal all, unless you have a faulty method of discernment.

Jonathan Carter, with no apparent upside, remains lodged to the priority eat a food list since 2015..sort of like a Raymon Riefer Mk 1.


The readily accepted & competitively unsustainable eat a food philosophy, or is it fallacy :?:

Basic math's will show opportunities for players to earn a living from cricket increase relative to the number of teams entering into competition. So please, from today lets cut the BS.

#cronyism Just call it what it is.

But...but...regional cricketers are paid as well as doctors and lawyers you say....apples with apples eh, how much are they paid in comparison to their international opponents.

26/8/2019

West Indian cricketers have more supporters in India than at home. #basicmaths

Cricket West Indies finance's depend on Indian, English and Australian tours plus associated revenues.

West Indian cricket forums, blogs and official websites are all dominated by Indians.

ICC, its major political supporter, has gone to lengths attempting to sustain West Indian cricket.
Many West Indians are grateful for this but for the last 30 years its state has been terminal.
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Re: The Limits to Growth

Postby Gils » Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:32 am

BWICBC's hand to mouth livity on full display, it's existence sustained only by the goodwill of the ECB, with a likkle two test tour...a two test tour :geek:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/spo ... 776031.cms"

There is no *competition when it is your competition who provide all your sustenance. The charade of West Indies as an independent cricketing nation is on full show for all deniers to deny, BWICBC only survive because ECB want them to !

Nothing to do with West Indian nationalism, self determination, sport as a unifying element in the region or any of the previously debunked falsehoods. With the help of the ECB, the privateers of BWICBC have ensured their survival, for now, while cricket fans continue their 25 year abstention.
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