Marlon Samuels is a changed man

[mapoui]

I not asking fuh any favors for shive. it is my impression that shive can go some more at a productive level for the westindies. we know the man, how tuff and determined he has been over a long time. why wud he be diferent now if he is fit and ready?

why wud his desire to play not indicate that he feels he has more to give?

and once his desire is there we must go a bit with him and not toss him overboard. only Lara has scored more runs for the westindies than Shive. if by the end of the next series we see that time has really caught up with shive then we can act. in fact shive may act first.

but I argue but I argue on the long-term class and what that class ought to have earned him...some patience, caution, and humane trreatment by fan and administration alike.

and this for all our players uniformly from now on. due consideration as human beings and for the hard work they put in representing the westindian nation

[AFRO]

the impression I have you is very westindian and very old, a very narrow perspective of theings and people westindian. I would bet any money that if you or we were considering a white man, a white player, all the factors of consideration I bring to bear on Shive, Dujon, Greenidge you would take naturally in stride.

that is because consciously or not we see, respond and treat white people as human and not ourselves and our own

What an ignorant and baseless comment to make!! , YOU DON'T KNOW ME, so your assumptions are ridiculous in the extreme, I JUDGE PEOPLE ON THE FACTS AND IT IS A FACT THAT SHIV HAS BEEN A SHADOW OF HIS FORMER SELF FOR OVER A YEAR NOW, that was evident in the Test series in Sri-lanka and again evident in the world cup WHICH IS WHY HE WAS DROPPED, so don't try and distort my views with racial theories please, furthermore it seems like you're subliminally implying that i shouldn't be picking Nash ahead of Shiv, and if that's the case then you really need to get a grip of yourself.

that is how we have learned to treat each other, grew up that way. we feed each other nutten and how we get where we are is up to we. when we good all enjoy, and discard the moment there is the suggestion of an end to our usefulness and quality.

This isn't a thread about lifes ills, it's simply a debate about whether a 36 year old out of form batsman should be left on the bench, making profound statements won't change the fact that Shiv has been poor for over a year,

I know shive as a fisehrman son who could barely read and write who made of himself a great player. there have been many like him in our annals. remember constantine. these are the human beings you know are of great courage and determination, of strength, who have overcome great challenges to be where they are. yu do nto just jettison such people without being sufre thats all.

AWW POOR SHIV!!..HE CAME FROM A TOUGH BACKGROUND SO THAT MEANS HE SHOULD STAY IN THE WI TEAM FOREVER RIGHT? IS IT LOST ON YOU THAT HE'S BEEN PLAYING FOR WI FOR 17 YEARS AND HAS MADE A TON OF MONEY OUT OF IT? YOUR "SOB STORIES" DON'T WASH WITH ME MAN!! .

is such a man as shive wants to play, what he has demonstrated all his life may still be at play. it is greater than all who are avialble now...ALL. if there is a chance that he can resurge then I I am willing to take that chance. I am willing to take that chance with Gayle, Sarwan. I wud have been willing to take that chance with all our great players before these current ones

Do you care more about Shiv than you do for the WI team? because you've already suggested that his form doesn't matter and HE should decide when he's ready to leave, therefore you're putting Shiv's best interests before the teams, and that's a very sad attitutde to have imo.

[mapoui]

What an ignorant and baseless comment to make!! , YOU DON'T KNOW ME, so your assumptions are ridiculous in the extreme, I JUDGE PEOPLE ON THE FACTS AND IT IS A FACT THAT SHIV HAS BEEN A SHADOW OF HIS FORMER SELF FOR OVER A YEAR NOW, that was evident in the Test series in Sri-lanka and again evident in the world cup WHICH IS WHY HE WAS DROPPED, so don't try and distort my views with racial theories please, furthermore it seems like you're subliminally implying that i shouldn't be picking Nash ahead of Shiv, and if that's the case then you really need to get a grip of yourself.

what is ignorant about concluding about your attitude on what you expresse here in these pages?

your narrow-mindedness and hostility is plain for all to see! it is as if shive did something of a nagative quality to you personally.

I agree Shive has been out of form for a years time, in the matches he has played. i ask for time to asses his state, if he has declined beyond ability to retain any longer.

in the situation that is absolutely fair. and I have built a case for that fair treatment of shive.

I have also placed it in the historical context of the terrible manner in which the wicb has traditinally treated our great players, with the hope of contributing to a change of that way, and the establishing of a new and harmonious pattern of treatment for all our players througout their careers

[mapoui]

the cases I have built required fundamental statements.

and I am not subliminally implying any damm thing. I have stated clearly how westindians treat each other in a manner hostile and contrary to the way they treat others, especially white people.

if you are westindian that is how you were brought up totally... or at the very best partially...helplessly exposed to the shit outside your home if your parents were wise and taught you positively inside it. if they did not many westindian parents were not so smart and capable of protecting their children from the poisons in our culture put there by our oppressors

I do not like Brendan Nash. I can never like someone like Brendon Nash and I could never ever raise my hand to pik anyone like Brendon Nash in the wesindies team before anyone at all...not even Sammy.

I have established my case on Nash...sknash from now on as far as you are concerned..over 2 boards now. but look at you...without reservation you pik sknash, easily, over any concern at all for what may be a fading shive. but even if skansh is in form he is just 3 years and some monhts or days younger than shive. and he hardly qualifies.

in support of skansh it can be argued that you have no damm principle at all... as well as a love for whiteness... for as long as you get what you want ..some runs in this case..it trumps principle.


no wonder you dont want no fundamental principle to be called in this case that you call a simple one of droping or keeping an out of form, aging player

[BallOil]

Who can honestly look at West Indies Test and ODI stats for the past 12 months and say Shiv does't command a spot?

Test Stats
ODI Stats

[mapoui]

the mere presence of sknash is an insult to the westindies.

that he was given what amounts to a red-carpet treatment into the side, that his place is uncontested by the public, un-argued, that he is now the vice captain and that he is likely soon to be elevated to the captaincy, contains up to 5 insults is reprehensible and establishes clearly that what westindies get in cricket as well as in life is fully deserved.

people insult you, walk away from you and go in contempt of you, to places where white people dominate and where they feel at home, as black man rises in the westindies to equality we fought for for centuries.

"nutten good cyan come of the westindies as these 'kafirs' come to power. look how the place deterioratin'!"

and now that deh son get rejected by that white society in what he doing, he come"home'' to play fuh we.

he qualify of couse on the arcane manner of these things that remain in place. but we did not have to smoth his way in. why? he does not deserve to pre-empt our own who have struggled with poor resources, in poor circumstances, no coaching..very little indeed.

and such as you welcome sknash back, no questions asked.

and now yu putting up all manner of hostile objections to the wicb persisting with shive, in a logical quest to see if more can be squeezed out of the great batsman he has been for the westindies...even if no matter what, sknash cannot carry shives coattails as a batsman...even if shive remains only half of himself at this time

and shive is westindian to the bone! yu shud be ashamed of yuhself!

[mapoui]

Who can honestly look at West Indies Test and ODI stats for the past 12 months and say Shiv does't command a spot?

Test Stats
ODI Stats

this westindies team or any westindies team anytime anywhere, shive would deserve the same treatment.

there was atime when Viv wasnt scoring. he had gone a ong time without scoring before he expl;oded with a double in Oz..208.

people shud look dat up and count how long viv had gone. no one suggested that he be dropped.

we have to be careful how we go with shive. we must be sure he has ono more to give and we do not discard quality we desperately need, in ingnorance, stupidity and hostility

[AFRO]

what is ignorant about concluding about your attitude on what you expresse here in these pages?

WHAT "ATTITUDE? that i want the BEST in form batsmen to play in the next series? if that's a bad attitude then tough luck i'm afraid.

your narrow-mindedness and hostility is plain for all to see! it is as if shive did something of a nagative quality to you personally.

NOPE like i said i'm looking at the FACTS and i've came to the conclusion that we'd be better off if Shiv sits on the bench!!..THAT'S MY OPINION, but as you clearly love the man more than WI you're getting offended which is a childish way to act imo.

I agree Shive has been out of form for a years time, in the matches he has played. i ask for time to asses his state, if he has declined beyond ability to retain any longer.

Like i said before the man has been playing for 17 YEARS.. why are you so afraid of change? especially when we have in form batters like Samuels ready to replace him!!.

in the situation that is absolutely fair. and I have built a case for that fair treatment of shive.

No you haven't, you've just spouted a load of BIASED RHETORIC in an effort to paint your hero in the best light possible, but again that doesn't change the fact that he's been poor for over a year.

I have also placed it in the historical context of the terrible manner in which the wicb has traditinally treated our great players, with the hope of contributing to a change of that way, and the establishing of a new and harmonious pattern of treatment for all our players througout their careers

THE PAST IS THE PAST, it was a different board back then so your point isn't really valid, the fact is if WI ever wish to move forward we MUST seek new ideas and try different things, sticking with the status quo has got us nowhere for 15 YEARS ALREADY.

[AFRO]

the mere presence of sknash is an insult to the westindies.

that he was given what amounts to a red-carpet treatment into the side, that his place is uncontested by the public, un-argued, that he is now the vice captain and that he is likely soon to be elevated to the captaincy, contains up to 5 insults is reprehensible and establishes clearly that what westindies get in cricket as well as in life is fully deserved.

people insult you, walk away from you and go in contempt of you, to places where white people dominate and where they feel at home, as black man rises in the westindies to equality we fought for for centuries.

"nutten good cyan come of the westindies as these 'kafirs' come to power. look how the place deterioratin'!"

and now that deh son get rejected by that white society in what he doing, he come"home'' to play fuh we.

he qualify of couse on the arcane manner of these things that remain in place. but we did not have to smoth his way in. why? he does not deserve to pre-empt our own who have struggled with poor resources, in poor circumstances, no coaching..very little indeed.

and such as you welcome sknash back, no questions asked.

and now yu putting up all manner of hostile objections to the wicb persisting with shive, in a logical quest to see if more can be squeezed out of the great batsman he has been for the westindies...even if no matter what, sknash cannot carry shives coattails as a batsman...even if shive remains only half of himself at this time

and shive is westindian to the bone! yu shud be ashamed of yuhself!

This post merely personifies your bigoted agenda!! , I DON'T CARE WHAT COLOUR OUR PLAYERS ARE AS LONG AS THEY PERFORM, and quite frankly while Shiv has been looking lost at the crease it's been NASH that's been saving us from embarassment, his numbers don't lie, when he first came to attention i had my concerns like many others did, but he's been brilliant for WI with the bat and in the field and brings a certain professionalism to the team that our other playsres don't have, but clearly that's not good enough for you!!..you're more concerned about the mans skin colour than whats best for the team!!.. so if anyone should be "ashamed".. IT'S YOU!! .