jala wrote:we haven't won anything with a "balanced" side, so what's your point?
so play an unbalanced side
THE WRITING IS FIRMLY ON THE WALL NOW!!
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mapoui
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all I see written here shud have been obvious to capable, trained and paid administrators, coaches and selectors.
but these at the wicb are not operating by the principles of cricket but by class and insular considerations.
they want a captain from their island at all costs and by doing so they must select a team that is unbalanced and less competent that the best team they can put out... all to facilitate the incompetent captain they have selected.
smith, Sammy, Edwards, already 26 years old, Russell, are just avarge players in a couple of cases and less in others.
the question almost begs: is Julian Hunte actually running everything from his office in castries?
I consider Hunte to be a very egotistical and stupid human being. and the cricket is so stupid now it bears a signature like Huntes...given the way the man is. I wud not be suprised if hunte is in the thick of things telling everybody what to do, determing all the decisions.
it defies the imagination to think Gibbo/buttsy/jamaica haynes/browne can be so stupid and incompetent as to be consciuosly puttng this jackass side out on the field
but these at the wicb are not operating by the principles of cricket but by class and insular considerations.
they want a captain from their island at all costs and by doing so they must select a team that is unbalanced and less competent that the best team they can put out... all to facilitate the incompetent captain they have selected.
smith, Sammy, Edwards, already 26 years old, Russell, are just avarge players in a couple of cases and less in others.
the question almost begs: is Julian Hunte actually running everything from his office in castries?
I consider Hunte to be a very egotistical and stupid human being. and the cricket is so stupid now it bears a signature like Huntes...given the way the man is. I wud not be suprised if hunte is in the thick of things telling everybody what to do, determing all the decisions.
it defies the imagination to think Gibbo/buttsy/jamaica haynes/browne can be so stupid and incompetent as to be consciuosly puttng this jackass side out on the field
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BallOil
- Posts: 19409
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:12 pm
spot on guys...Claro07 wrote:cuffman wrote: the FACT is that we have a real crisis of leadership as it pertains to the WI team.
The bottom line is, we are not going anywhere with some of these players right now!!!
well said leadership has been our problem from top to bottom for years.
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mapoui
- Posts: 8507
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:07 pm
Garners speech at the BCA said a whole lot. after the nautral flush of players that led to world chanpionships we would have had to work hard to prepare players of the same class to go on.
we did not and sank into a mire. if we had set up the regional structure to incentivise youth to play cricket 2 decades ago we would not be in the bind we are for for a competent captain.
we have to start now to prepare players for the future. at least Barbados are well along in a program to do just that.
I dont know how far along Titty is but Guyana is in some difficulty according to the news from there.
successive incompetent administrations of westindies cricket since 1995 have led to this now blighted thing we call our game
we did not and sank into a mire. if we had set up the regional structure to incentivise youth to play cricket 2 decades ago we would not be in the bind we are for for a competent captain.
we have to start now to prepare players for the future. at least Barbados are well along in a program to do just that.
I dont know how far along Titty is but Guyana is in some difficulty according to the news from there.
successive incompetent administrations of westindies cricket since 1995 have led to this now blighted thing we call our game
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BallOil
- Posts: 19409
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:12 pm
Maps...this is not cricket anymore but politics. These guys clearly don't have a clue ...mapoui wrote:all I see written here shud have been obvious to capable, trained and paid administrators, coaches and selectors.
but these at the wicb are not operating by the principles of cricket but by class and insular considerations.
they want a captain from their island at all costs and by doing so they must select a team that is unbalanced and less competent that the best team they can put out... all to facilitate the incompetent captain they have selected.
smith, Sammy, Edwards, already 26 years old, Russell, are just avarge players in a couple of cases and less in others.
the question almost begs: is Julian Hunte actually running everything from his office in castries?
I consider Hunte to be a very egotistical and stupid human being. and the cricket is so stupid now it bears a signature like Huntes...given the way the man is. I wud not be suprised if hunte is in the thick of things telling everybody what to do, determing all the decisions.
it defies the imagination to think Gibbo/buttsy/jamaica haynes/browne can be so stupid and incompetent as to be consciuosly puttng this jackass side out on the field
Some people will argue that the board has been mismanaged all along so what is the big deal now? Some might even say run it dung ... Where do you draw the line? What will the Caribbean people do, save the cricket with immediate restructuring or let it be?
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mikesiva
- Posts: 19320
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- Location: Watford, Hertfordshire
- Contact:
Spot on....mapoui wrote:all I see written here shud have been obvious to capable, trained and paid administrators, coaches and selectors.
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howzdat
- Posts: 3507
- Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:15 am
Hi, I introduce myself as a cricket-loving supporter of the WI and would like to join you all here in the discussions. As I read the first post on this thread it appears as if the topic is about imbalance in the current WI squad. If anyone were to ask me whether or not i thought such imbalance exists i would have to say yes. My intention is to be constructive and not criticise just for the sake of it. Hope i will make sense.
The captain: It goes without saying that Sammy is to be commended on stepping up to the plate and taking on the captaincy role, however on current evidence his inclusion in the team is not working. It is hoped that he will become a great cricketer who will contribute with both bat and ball however everytime i see him bat i discern what appears to be some mechanical issues with his bat handling. Maybe i get this impression because he is so bottom-handed but his stays at the crease convey neither assurance nor permanence. When batting his hand/arm mechanics seem akward and untrained!I do not know whether this is to do with technique or him trying to hit the ball in areas that are illogical given the way that he holds the bat, however I think that any world class bowler would fancy dismissing him sooner rather than later.
I know there are/have been batters with 'unconventional' techniques e.g. Graeme Smith, Shiv, Alan Knott, Cook but i argue that the basic mechanics of their movement is/was smooth, well co-ordinated and natural to them. Sammy's bat-handling mechanics seem to result in him looking 'pagalee' - as if he is somehow unable to get his limbs to easily move in the way that the line and length of the ball dictates. Though he is playing in the team as an all-rounder he has a lot of work to do if his batting will ever amount to much on the international stage. His fielding is often outstanding but his bowling appears to have been affected in that he seems to be running up and just putting the ball there - to be hit.
As a captain I have not seen much evidence that Sammy is either a natural leader or that he has enough natural tactical nouse to be pro-active in the field so as to make things happen. Yes, he may learn some of these skills but typically this type of learning requires time and can be aided by having tacticians in the ranks. Thinking players whom he can turn to for ideas or thoughts without feeling that he is undermining himrself as captain - cricket is a team sport all.
I think that Dwayne Bravo has more natural ability and is more skilled as an allrounder than Sammy and so is currently more worthy of a place on the team - but only just so because his form has been lousy. It may be that Dwayne's injuries, ipl, WICB administration blah, blah, blah might all be getting in the way of him developing as we all hope he would have. Oh and sometimes when battting he plays some thoughtless cricket shots so maybe he too needs his head examined. Could it be that the continued inclusion of an underperforming all-rounder as captain is a distraction to Dwayne???
Personally, if I were to choose a captain for the team, I would look around for someone with proven ability as a leader and a winner. Someone who has shown evidence of being able to make 'right' decisions during the course of a match. I would go for Darren Ganga. He is a better batsman than Sammy. I know this would create selection headaches elsewhere in the team but if there are extenuating circumstances for Sammy's continued inclusion then selecting Ganga on the basis of his proven captaincy ability can also be tried.
The captain: It goes without saying that Sammy is to be commended on stepping up to the plate and taking on the captaincy role, however on current evidence his inclusion in the team is not working. It is hoped that he will become a great cricketer who will contribute with both bat and ball however everytime i see him bat i discern what appears to be some mechanical issues with his bat handling. Maybe i get this impression because he is so bottom-handed but his stays at the crease convey neither assurance nor permanence. When batting his hand/arm mechanics seem akward and untrained!I do not know whether this is to do with technique or him trying to hit the ball in areas that are illogical given the way that he holds the bat, however I think that any world class bowler would fancy dismissing him sooner rather than later.
I know there are/have been batters with 'unconventional' techniques e.g. Graeme Smith, Shiv, Alan Knott, Cook but i argue that the basic mechanics of their movement is/was smooth, well co-ordinated and natural to them. Sammy's bat-handling mechanics seem to result in him looking 'pagalee' - as if he is somehow unable to get his limbs to easily move in the way that the line and length of the ball dictates. Though he is playing in the team as an all-rounder he has a lot of work to do if his batting will ever amount to much on the international stage. His fielding is often outstanding but his bowling appears to have been affected in that he seems to be running up and just putting the ball there - to be hit.
As a captain I have not seen much evidence that Sammy is either a natural leader or that he has enough natural tactical nouse to be pro-active in the field so as to make things happen. Yes, he may learn some of these skills but typically this type of learning requires time and can be aided by having tacticians in the ranks. Thinking players whom he can turn to for ideas or thoughts without feeling that he is undermining himrself as captain - cricket is a team sport all.
I think that Dwayne Bravo has more natural ability and is more skilled as an allrounder than Sammy and so is currently more worthy of a place on the team - but only just so because his form has been lousy. It may be that Dwayne's injuries, ipl, WICB administration blah, blah, blah might all be getting in the way of him developing as we all hope he would have. Oh and sometimes when battting he plays some thoughtless cricket shots so maybe he too needs his head examined. Could it be that the continued inclusion of an underperforming all-rounder as captain is a distraction to Dwayne???
Personally, if I were to choose a captain for the team, I would look around for someone with proven ability as a leader and a winner. Someone who has shown evidence of being able to make 'right' decisions during the course of a match. I would go for Darren Ganga. He is a better batsman than Sammy. I know this would create selection headaches elsewhere in the team but if there are extenuating circumstances for Sammy's continued inclusion then selecting Ganga on the basis of his proven captaincy ability can also be tried.
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AFRO
- Posts: 9502
- Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:44 pm
Good post Howzdat and welcome to the forum!.. stick around and lets make this place the best forum for people to debate about WI cricket, i agree with everything you said about Sammy, the way he holds the bat is that of a child just learning the game, may sound harsh but it's the truth, i live in hope that the WICb will finally put an end to this madness and pick a proper captain to can play all forms of the game and deserves a spot in the side, maybe it's time to groom one now? hows about a Darren Bravo or Bishoo? we've got nothing to lose imo,
Ganga has done well lately but again is he one of the best five batsmen we have in the region? i doubt it, and if he fails to perform whilst a better batter sits on the sidelines it will just lead to problems again.
Ganga has done well lately but again is he one of the best five batsmen we have in the region? i doubt it, and if he fails to perform whilst a better batter sits on the sidelines it will just lead to problems again.
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mapoui
- Posts: 8507
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:07 pm
I never looked at him fully until recently but I agree about sammsy technical flaws. his fielding is indeed excellent mostly but huis bowling appears to be undermined now by the futility of his role as captain.AFRO wrote:Good post Howzdat and welcome to the forum!.. stick around and lets make....
Ganga has done well lately but again is he one of the best five batsmen we have in the region? i doubt it, and if he fails to perform whilst a better batter sits on the sidelines it will just lead to problems again.
Sammy is losing it all under the pressure of a non-earned leadership. He is being destroyed by the admims program that has put him inot a situation he simply does not fit. he shud resign for his own maintainance and development.
I dont know wats wrong with big B..but even when he was on top there used to be those 'lapses'
I saw him as the cappo-in -waiting but not anymore.
before Sammy was appointed I argued for Barath...biting the bullet and going with Barath but carefully placing around him all the supportive resoucres that wud nuture and develop him in time into the cappo we need.
baraths suspect body frame has taken him out of contention to my way of thinking.
but I cant think of any one else....in which event I wud do 1 of 2 things...if as above here the bullet is to be bitten with lil Bravo then I woul place him in the same supportive leadership cocoon I advocated for lil Barath.
otherwise I wud pik the best side..rather the best 16 players. gather them together and ask them to select a captain, with my (admin) imput of course
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howzdat
- Posts: 3507
- Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:15 am
Hi AFRO. Given that I would like to stay on topic - and I am not too sure whether the forum monitors regard posts that wander off topic - I am unsure whether answering your ? about Bishoo or Bravo would break the house rules. I chose Ganga primarily for his proven leadership skills as a team captain; he is also a better batsman. Thus the only thing the current team 'balance' would be missing is Sammy's bowling and i would hope that Dwayne Bravo can start to pull his weight in that department once more - Darren Bravo and Bishoo could still play in this scenario.
You raise an interesting point though that the wicb is also hopefully thinking about i.e. is team balance best served at this time by selecting the best people for every 'skill position' or should they persist in making some short term concessions on the basis of most pressing role required within the team. You get me? Do we need a captain more than we need the five best batsmen, the best keeper, an all rounder and four bowlers?
In recent history the team has not flourished while the premier batsman is also the captain because the gulf in class (and sometimes actual performance) between lara/gayle/chanderpaul/sarwan and the rest of the batters is so huge that once opposition captains get that batsman out the rest of the batting just folds. Could Ganga play as captain and bat down the order?
All in all I still tend to go with replacing the current skipper with someone proven in that role at regional level and taking it from there to 'balance the team'.
You raise an interesting point though that the wicb is also hopefully thinking about i.e. is team balance best served at this time by selecting the best people for every 'skill position' or should they persist in making some short term concessions on the basis of most pressing role required within the team. You get me? Do we need a captain more than we need the five best batsmen, the best keeper, an all rounder and four bowlers?
In recent history the team has not flourished while the premier batsman is also the captain because the gulf in class (and sometimes actual performance) between lara/gayle/chanderpaul/sarwan and the rest of the batters is so huge that once opposition captains get that batsman out the rest of the batting just folds. Could Ganga play as captain and bat down the order?
All in all I still tend to go with replacing the current skipper with someone proven in that role at regional level and taking it from there to 'balance the team'.