When did WI captaincy choices start to go wrong?

[howzdat]

And now for a bit of controversy I have always wondered if West Indies started to go wrong on this captaincy issue when the senior bajan batsmen in the team were overlooked after Lloyd left.

I know that the team was led successfully by Richards and similarly, albeit to wee bit lesser extent by Richardson - but what sort of captain would either Greenidge or Haynes have made?

In hindsight these two players had everything thrown at them as batsmen and they proved adaptable - and successful - enough to play all sorts of innings according to the circumstances and team requirements. They saw the great bowlers come and go.

Surely one of these two should have had a chance as captain prior to their retirement?

Again in hindsight, it seems that once they had been overlooked for Richards then it was a foregone conclusion that after Richards it would be Richardson and then ... well the rest is history...

Any thoughts?

[AFRO]

Imo you're only a good captain if you have the tools to get the job done, LLoyd couldn't make Bangladesh any better than they are now could he? imo a captain is only the iceing on the cake, the main focus must be having a BALANCED TEAM with everyone contributing, that isn't the case with WI right now and as you can see it's hurting us, one wonders though if there wasn't any stupid IPL in the way what could have been? i believe Bravo would be our captain right now.

[howzdat]

So you believe it started to go wrong when the WICB selection committee started to select an unbalanced team? When in your opinion did this first happen?

[AFRO]

No, what i'm saying is the captain can only do so much, WI started declining a long time ago, we had a captain who was the best batsman in the world (Lara) but the team around him wasn't on his level, now we have an average team with a captain who isn't good enough to be in the first eleven, neither Lara or Sammy had a world class team to lead, so imo it's more important to have a BALANCED team more than anything else.

[mapoui]

according to the first post, Richards was always the cappo in waiting after Lloyd.

in fact a sort of dispute arose when Lloyd was asked by the wicbc to stay-on later than he wanted to.

Richards interpreted that as the board did not want him to be captain and was stretching out Lloyd for that reason.

Greenidge was considerd for the captaincy and when Lloyd and Riachards were unavailable against Pak in one of those tours...or was it when Richards was unavailable for lloyd had already gorne..Greenidge actually captained westindies, at Bourda in the first test...

must have been 1988 of there-about.

anyway westindies lost and had to fight to draw that series. Greenidge did not prove out to be a capable captain and was never considered again.

[mapoui]

Richards became unavailable for a return tour to Pak and Haynes was given the job and proved out brilliantly, that he was in the flow of the great captains.

everthing was in place for a Haynes captaincy, save Richarson proceeded to win maginficently a dung heap with the leewards, when dung heap was still a top competiton, and catapulted himself into the captaincy stakes, accordung to the media, but not according to me.

I knew it would be a mistake to put in Richardson. richardsons win was phenomenal and not likely to be repeated. young phenoms never turn out sucessful.

its like when a race horse wins a race suddenly with a huge figure he never showed before, never showed he was even capable of. and he never, absolutely never, runs that race again.

if yu bet him to win again, based on that great race, you will lose everytime until you smarten- up

but the argument goes that the wicbc knew what it was doing, knew dat Richardson was not the man if they wanted to continue the excellence.

but that s not wat they wanted.

de wanted control..as was in their name then..the board of control...and through richardson deh cud get that control but not with haynes....one of the school of great and strong westindian captains

right there is where we bagan to go wrong with the captains...

[howzdat]

...according to the first post Richards was alwasy the cappo in waiting after Lloyd. in fact a sort of dispute arose when Lloyd as asked by the wicbc to stay-on later than he wanted to...

I made that post thinking that there could have been some contention.

Richards has such a strong personality that it must have seemed unthinkable for anyone else on the team to get a look in after Lloyd left. Anyway he did a great job in continuing the dominance for a while.

[mapoui]

...according to the first post Richards was alwasy the cappo in waiting after Lloyd. in fact a sort of dispute arose when Lloyd as asked by the wicbc to stay-on later than he wanted to...

I made that post thinking that there could have been some contention.

Richards has such a strong personality that it must have seemed unthinkable for anyone else on the team to get a look in after Lloyd left. Anyway he did a great job in continuing the dominance for a while.

well Greenidge did make some noise. he wrote a book that became controversial in that he is reputed to have attacked lloyd and his leadership...while he was still in the team.

that is why he was given the captaincy when richards was unavailable. he had place himself up there and he had all that successful experience.

but he was not a good captain as proved out in the end. he was never even made captain of Barbados.

[mikesiva]

I strongly believe we should go down the route of England and have three separate captains, because like them, we don't have a player who can command a place in all three forms of the game, and still be in a leadership position.

Here are my respective squads, with the contenders for captaincy underlines:

20/20

1) Chris Gayle
2) Lendl Simmons
3) Darren Bravo
4) Danza Hyatt
5) Marlon Samuels
6) Chris Barnwell
7) Darren Sammy
8) Andre Russell
9) Suleimann Benn
10) Ravi Rampaul
11) Dev Bishoo

Squad members
Andre Fletcher
Jerome Taylor
Ashley Nurse
Kemar Roach
Nikita Miller

ODIs

1) Chris Gayle
2) Lendl Simmons
3) Darren Bravo
4) Ramnaresh Sarwan
5) Kirk Edwards
6) Dwayne Bravo
7) Carlton Baugh
8) Andre Russell
9) Kemar Roach
10) Ravi Rampaul
11) Dev Bishoo

Squad members
Adrian Barath
Marlon Samuels
Jerome Taylor
Suleimann Benn
Anthony Martin

Tests
1) Lendl Simmons
2) Chris Gayle
3) Darren Bravo
4) Shiv Chanderpaul
5) Brendan Nash
6) Ramnaresh Sarwan
7) Carlton Baugh
8) Andre Russell
9) Kemar Roach
10) Fidel Edwards
11) Dev Bishoo

Squad members
Kraigg Brathwaite
Adrian Barath
Marlon Samuels
Jerome Taylor
Suleimann Benn

IMHO, players need to make their respective teams on merit, before they have captaincy thrust upon them....

[howzdat]

Thanks mikesiva, intersesting selections but unless you are saying that the WI captaincy choices started to go wrong when they failed to establish the trend of having different captains for the various formats of the game you are taking us onto a different topic. No problem.

Sounds like mapoui would have selected Haynes as captain over Richardson and from my opening post It is clear that i agree with this viewpoint as i was thinking of either Haynes or Greenidge to take the helm after Lloyd.

Interesting views encompassing past, present and future. Thanks.