I Argued Next Door For Amla! I Am Sure....

[mapoui2]

the reason I got into this discussion..started it up in fact... is that I have seen Lorgat doing all in his power to open up the captaincy debate while delaying the selection of.

that tells me that Haroon Lorgat is working to get Hashim Amla into the job of captain of South Africa..is determined to. and that if De villiers is to get the job it will probably be over Lorgats body

that is really the aspect of the situation in which I am interested. it is a black country, an african country.. and here we have the spectacle of white and and Pakistani fighting over some of the spoils. not a black candidate in sight.

I in fact do not care about either candidate. I like neither of the 2 players irrespective of their cricket abilities, which appears to be above average though they both cant be considered great players..at least not yet.

but the politics is very interesting, keen and of great note. we should be paying special attention to the aspects I have raised..how is this possible in a black country that who are really forriners and usurpers publicly fight for what is really majority kakadah

[Gils]

yes there used to be organised black South African cricket that produced many great players who were never selected but who were adored by their black public and recognized even by white South Africa as class..

Agreed, that's an issue I could have done better to address.

Adding to that point I think black/brown participation in cricket has quite likely dwindled since integration, rather than grown.

I doubt there is a separate black/brown league anymore and that would have a direct impact on such a trend.

[Colin Benjamin]

politics is life and life is political. like white on white rice..or brown on brown rice.. I would like to see you actually separate them..sports and politics. impossible!

@mapoui - i don't want to get into a political discussion cause this is what this threatens to get into, but i generally do agree with your general sentiment about "white man dominnce" in caribbean society.

All I'd say to the above statement is that, sport is suppose to be the escape we people have from the realities and crap that goes on in the world for a few hrs a day every week/weekend.

The recent politicking in sports where we have administrators/president who didn't play the game being head of sporting governing bodies and the TV rights stuff is phenomenon of the last 20 years of so.

Most well run sporting bodies in the game like FIFA, IOC & IRB for example have a very strict policy of no government intervention in sport. ICC is one of the weakest sporting governing bodies as we all know & the S Africa government whether you are with them are not have taken advantage of this whole in the ICC & have been able to implement the quota policy in cricket.

S Africa could not have done that in football because FIFA would have banned them. But coincidentally that has not happened with their football because, the game is played by the African majority in the country.

Yes i know black people played cricket in S Africa in their own groups during the aparthied years. But Basil D'Oliviera was not black like Makhaya Ntini though. He was simply coloured/mixed race like Vernon Philander/Rory Klienvelth/Herschelle Gibbs/Wayne Parnell/JP Duminy.

So when you say things like " it is a black country, an african country.. and here we have a spectacle of white and and Pakistani fighting over some of the spoils. not a black candidate in sight". - that's a bit over the top.

The apartheid days the white people didn't just discriminate against pure blacks, but the asians and mixed raced people too. They had to fight the same battles for civil rights. Its just that in the modern dynamic, asians are the second biggest cricket participating group in S Africa after the whites.


Would disagree with this statement also: I like neither of the 2 players irrespective of their cricket abilities, which appears to be above average though they both cant be considered great players..at least not yet.

Amla & De Villiers are great modern day players. Right now De Villiers is form in test makes him alongside Kohli the best batsman in the world. Before S Africa lost to Australia earlier this year - S Africa had only lost 1 test series between 2006 & 2014 vs Aus in S Africa 2009. That makes that Smith/Kallis led era S Africa team, statistically their in history alongside the team that was banned in 1970. Cause Cronje's S Africa didn't have such a fantastic test record of not losing series.

Amla has the highest score by a S Africa in tests also. If i were to pick an All-time S Africa XI, both of them i would say would be in the team:

Smith
Barry Richards
Amla
G Pollock
Kallis
De Villiers
Procter
S Pollock
Tayfield
Steyn
Donald


Finally how could you say "tell hell with white players in this statement": there is no need to be talking about white players as he does. to hell with them. they have had a monopoly, still do..as if they have some dam right to be always first in line, in charge, running the friggin' show.

That is an unfair and unnecessary statement. And i'll ask you this again: Why should young white S Africa like a de villiers, steyn, kallis, etc who grew up in modern s africa with no racial tendencies & just want to play cricket, suddenly realize when they reach the international level, that the colour of their skin at times will dictate whether they play for S Africa or not?

Are you suggesting that the likes of Kevin Pietersen, Trott, Kieswetter, Keeper Wessels son - M Wessels, Stuart Meaker, Michael Lumb, Jade Dernbach, Johan Botha, Nic Pothas, Gran Elliot, Kruger Van Wyk, Neil Wagner, who all left S Africa to have careers either internationally or as a kolpak domestic player in ENG/AUS/NZ - were not disadvantaged by this policy?

No doubt institutional racism sitll exists in cricket, but i see no reason why these non racist modern white people of S Africa, should be punished for what their ancestors did - when all they want is just to have a cricket career.

America is white country, but yet in Olympic history all their track & field stats by a 90% majority is the minority blacks. I never noticed white America up in arms about more white folks being in the team.

S Africa have had a black presidents since the UN & world sports accepted the country back into the international community in 1990 anyway. Let them fight the white establishment outside of the sports, despite the obvious complications and confusions that comes with.

That's the basic point I'm saying, cause i they can't do it that way - forcing token black/coloured players into the sports team, isn't going to help the post apartheid healing and harmony among the people & that's the vybe i get from the S Africa cricket friends I have all the time whether black or white.

[mapoui2]

Adding to that point I think black/brown participation in cricket has quite likely dwindled since integration, rather than grown.

true! I would like to know why although I have expressed what I suspect is the reason...no opportunity for blacks..they can see the white wal...hard to break through or climb over.. so they don't bother no more

[Gils]

They may, or may not, have been locked out but they alone would be responsible for the operation and maintenance of those black/brown cricket club traditions and subsequent fading spectator interest.

They would also be responsible for building institutions that cater to their own interests which could then rival the established order, as I've little doubt they've already accomplished in the footballing arena.

Within that I see a much more natural solution to the problem. An inclusive solution that reflects the will of all the people.

A natural and fair way to achieve this. Through weight of numbers, IMO the best way to enact change, which remains long lasting while staying in harmony with popular culture.

[mapoui2]

They may, or may not, have been locked out but they alone would be responsible for the operation and maintenance of those black/brown cricket club traditions and subsequent fading spectator interest.

well I don't know really..it seems more integrated and complex than that. black people were locked out period..from everything. they may have played dirt soccer, village soccer etc. but they could not play for clubs and they certainly could not represent south africa. they could not represent south africa in anything at all

long struggle, end of apartheid and blacks in theory can represent the country. so since 1995 they have looked to soccer. lots of opportunity there globally for the best of them..but there is a living even for the minor players

what has happened in the 17-18 years years since 1994?

black cricket has died but not black soccer..yet both were in the same boat by 1994?

one has lived, expanded exponentially... the other has died obviously because the path to participation, expansion, development is blocked due to the way the sport is run. there is no need for Black cricket any more. the country is supposed to belong to the people, the majority of whom are black. why is there need for black cricket?

there is none! the ANC allowed the SACU to continue their monopoly and that seems to me to be the problem. SACU should have been killed and the black cricket administration/organization given control of the cricket. if they wanted cricket to go better that is what they should have done.

the ANC allowed the ancien' regime to continue and that never works out for the better.

in the new dispensation SACU had to be disbanded, cricket reconstituted along modern non racial inclusive lines with the task of opening up the game to all of the society.

that did not happen. so while cricket is theoretically open to all there are serious roadblocks apparently, and old SACU appears to be quite uninterested in expanding the cricket into 'non-traditional' areas

[Gils]

No doubt it's more complex than what I present.

Not being familiar with the dynamics I simply ask why their ambitions haven't allowed them to start their own cricketing institutions, to suit their own requirements and desires.

To my mind, a set of stumps in an open space with a bat and ball is all that's needed, and the common will of the people.

Such a will that appeared to be greater in D' Olivera's day, before the former regimes fall.

[mapoui2]

why is there need for black cricket?

there is none! there is white cricket in RSA when there is supposed to be RSA cricket

for black cricket to continue finance would surely be a problem..unless as you say it was entirely rudimentary cricket. for black cricket to continue the the government would have had to split resources for cricket development between black cricket and SACU. how would that work?

I am just looking at possibilities as I don't know for certain all that's going on over there.

if you leave the old regime in charge of the whole pie, then the path to the real rewards of focus on the game is set by them. even if the black cricket was/is maintained it would have to be on the backs on the people with no chance or little chance of the rewards in the white dominated part of the game.

things appear to remain little different to apartheid. it is still the white way..SACU..or no way. Blacks can play as much cricket as they like, be as good as they may be, but SACU is the way

a bat a ball and 3 stumps wont cut it. even if deh did like we used to..cut a pitch oil tin open, flatten it out to make a wicket because we have no stumps it won't cut it. SACU is the way and that is the problem! the admin is in the wrong hands

piss on the ANC might as well go play soccer or run track!

[mikesiva]

Here is a much more balanced article on apartheid, Clive Rice, Barry Richards, and black and white cricket....

http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/ ... e-about-us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;