I hope AFRO doh get vex wit' mih because I mean him no ill will...but I see likcs and abuse in a westindian setting as counter-productive.
as I said before westindies are contitioned in an abusive social setting based on force. today when in theory that setting is not supposed to be place wen westindies feeling a lil bet of freedom buck up on it deh are ike to react in certain ways than seems endemic in the westindie team right now.
the people who get results from westindians are people like Lloyd and Worrell. everwhere with westindies in gathering you see ceratin thing play out as naturally as day:
westindians hagning as a group , doing things, all going fine. a white person comes in and their mere presence busrts the group up from the inside and all fall apart.
a commanding figure of authroity, wiht the power of the state , police etc behind him appears and everybody quail down.
a father figure appears, almost always a male figure, full of understanding and compassion, excellent in their own right in the activity around which the issue is organised, become leadr, treats tjpose involved as they shud be treated, like men and women, saying whats to be done and no more, never telling wats to be done and doing it themselves but leaving it up to those whose repsonsibuity it is.
if mistates are made discussion of the job leads to corrction which is again left up tho those responsisible. in the even that it is still not done and the fatjher-figure must do it he does it expertly. most importantly his part is well done at all times, especaillly when the pressure is on and success or failure lies in his effort
Ottis Gibson MUST GO...
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mapoui
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such figures when they appear in westindian life, at all levels, even those that are not writen off in the papers, that hapen below the radar...are enormuosly successful. move people, who work like they never knew they could in the process.
in such situations the people give up and do, work, reach into themselves and bring all out. and they remember the individual who led them thusly for their remaining years, and talk about that too reverently.
I have seen dat in the westindies been part of one such myself that was very successful, that led to the develoment of an institution in Titty..a school system.
I see all this as phenomena out of a society based on forceful relations...slavery, indentured, police brutality, neo-colonial domination.
there is also the reaction to arbitray and incompetent power which is the very reaction we get from the westindies team at the moment. is is a dispirited, deadened reaction, the oppositge to the reaction to the father figure, in which people perform woase than they know how too, just cant get themselves up for the task, lose and cant go forward...becuase the leadership is unjust, incompetent and enforced.
no one hates Sammy...yet! but they will soon if he continues. i Sammy is smart he will take himself out of that equation. he has a life to live in the westindies and he ought not to let Hunte and Hilaire destroy to meet their own agenda
in such situations the people give up and do, work, reach into themselves and bring all out. and they remember the individual who led them thusly for their remaining years, and talk about that too reverently.
I have seen dat in the westindies been part of one such myself that was very successful, that led to the develoment of an institution in Titty..a school system.
I see all this as phenomena out of a society based on forceful relations...slavery, indentured, police brutality, neo-colonial domination.
there is also the reaction to arbitray and incompetent power which is the very reaction we get from the westindies team at the moment. is is a dispirited, deadened reaction, the oppositge to the reaction to the father figure, in which people perform woase than they know how too, just cant get themselves up for the task, lose and cant go forward...becuase the leadership is unjust, incompetent and enforced.
no one hates Sammy...yet! but they will soon if he continues. i Sammy is smart he will take himself out of that equation. he has a life to live in the westindies and he ought not to let Hunte and Hilaire destroy to meet their own agenda
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mapoui
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I dont see how we can do much about the westindies if we dont understand ourselves and how we got here.
I dont know how accurate I am but I have lived all this...I have seen the phenomena which I describe many times. I see it now in the westindies side.
and the thing is this almost exact situation happend in westindies cricket before as I mentioned in the 19 fifities under Sir Errol Dos Santos as the then wicbc president.
but something similar had been going on from the start of westindies cricket that really matured by 1955 and was resolved with the appointment of Worrell in 1960.
that was a racist/class equation back then. but what is very striking now are 2 factors...1) what seems like a repeat of the racist structure of the 19 fifties in exact sameness..except that only people of colour are involved
and 2) the rise of players of Indian descent to prominence in westindies cricket.
additional features of similarity: by the 19-fifties white westindian society had decayed and was falling apart, white westindiand were in decline their spocial power about to be severely diluted. they as a dominat social facotor exibited great signs of social decay.
today it is the succeeding African dominated power that has failed just as miserably. African elitist power in full decline, fully enagged in all the defeatist administration that the whites they replaced were enaged in as their power was all but eliminated
I dont know how accurate I am but I have lived all this...I have seen the phenomena which I describe many times. I see it now in the westindies side.
and the thing is this almost exact situation happend in westindies cricket before as I mentioned in the 19 fifities under Sir Errol Dos Santos as the then wicbc president.
but something similar had been going on from the start of westindies cricket that really matured by 1955 and was resolved with the appointment of Worrell in 1960.
that was a racist/class equation back then. but what is very striking now are 2 factors...1) what seems like a repeat of the racist structure of the 19 fifties in exact sameness..except that only people of colour are involved
and 2) the rise of players of Indian descent to prominence in westindies cricket.
additional features of similarity: by the 19-fifties white westindian society had decayed and was falling apart, white westindiand were in decline their spocial power about to be severely diluted. they as a dominat social facotor exibited great signs of social decay.
today it is the succeeding African dominated power that has failed just as miserably. African elitist power in full decline, fully enagged in all the defeatist administration that the whites they replaced were enaged in as their power was all but eliminated
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mr. cricket
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:24 am
mapoui wrote:I dont see how we can do much about the westindies if we dont understand ourselves and how we got here.
I dont know how accurate I am but I have lived all this...I have seen the phenomena which I describe many times. I see it now in the westindies side.
and the thing is this almost exact situation happend in westindies cricket before as I mentioned in the 19 fifities under Sir Errol Dos Santos as the then wicbc president.
but something similar had been going on from the start of westindies cricket that really matured by 1955 and was resolved with the appointment of Worrell in 1960.
that was a racist/class equation back then. but what is very striking now are 2 factors...1) what seems like a repeat of the racist structure of the 19 fifties in exact sameness..except that only people of colour are involved
and 2) the rise of players of Indian descent to prominence in westindies cricket.
additional features of similarity: by the 19-fifties white westindian society had decayed and was falling apart, white westindiand were in decline their spocial power about to be severely diluted. they as a dominat social facotor exibited great signs of social decay.
today it is the succeeding African dominated power that has failed just as miserably. African elitist power in full decline, fully enagged in all the defeatist administration that the whites they replaced were enaged in as their power was all but eliminated
how old are you
plus you know when team is losing everything is blames when it starts winning every possible thing is praised from board chief to the culture the beach the people the relation between them.....just wait bishoo bravo are gem few more gems coming up from under 19 structure and this team will be totally different....even when the team is losing look at the temparament of thewse youngsters they have never say die attitide as soon as few more talented youngster join the ranks whole team will belong to different class and will start winning very very soon-
mapoui
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- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:07 pm
[quote]how old are you plus you know when team is losing everything is blames when it starts winning every possible thing is praised from board chief to the culture the beach the people the relation between them.....just wait bishoo bravo are gem few more gems coming up from under 19 structure and this team will be totally different....even when the team is losing look at the temparament of thewse youngsters they have never say die attitide as soon as few more talented youngster join the ranks whole team will belong to different class and will start winning very very soon/quote]
(old enuff! yu have to see how the national politics affects the team. the point is they have to push incompetence because that is the way their systm works. that is why we have a sammy captaincy and the reduction of the team to one that can play under him.)
today the african derived power that replaced the the white power has led the westindies to failed state status.
at a lower level we have the example of the wicb pushing incompetence which is precisely what is hapening at the top.
there is a status quo in place that afrcan power inherited from the white power, and decided to maintain, and upon which they bnassed their own class power.
that meant nothing in the westindies would be changed with independence, that ole marse even if he did not now run the administration of the region would still reap the profits because he would still own all the business, and pay high bribes to the African derived elites to mind and protect his westindian stores for him.
and if the wesindian people got so out of hand his westindian clones could not cope he would send in his armies, the cost of whcih he would later attach to westindian taxpayers as a loan we had to pay.
so in independence the westindian people found themselves in just about the same khaki pants as they were before independence. the Afrcain derived elites had to supress their onw people to keep their social place at the feet of ole marse. for that marse had sacrificed the power of the wesindian whites whom he did not care or need to maitain. they wud have to get along how they cud in the local society
the key here is that to maintain themselves the African derived elites had to supress all westindain excellence. corruption and brown-nosing was the ay forward not excellence, especially if ones inelligence led one to truth and intent to seek real westindain develiopment. that was life-threatening to anyone who was so bold
(old enuff!
yu have to see how the national politics affects the team. the point is they have to push incompetence because that is the way their systm works. that is why we have a sammy captaincy and the reduction of the team to one that can play under him.)today the african derived power that replaced the the white power has led the westindies to failed state status.
at a lower level we have the example of the wicb pushing incompetence which is precisely what is hapening at the top.
there is a status quo in place that afrcan power inherited from the white power, and decided to maintain, and upon which they bnassed their own class power.
that meant nothing in the westindies would be changed with independence, that ole marse even if he did not now run the administration of the region would still reap the profits because he would still own all the business, and pay high bribes to the African derived elites to mind and protect his westindian stores for him.
and if the wesindian people got so out of hand his westindian clones could not cope he would send in his armies, the cost of whcih he would later attach to westindian taxpayers as a loan we had to pay.
so in independence the westindian people found themselves in just about the same khaki pants as they were before independence. the Afrcain derived elites had to supress their onw people to keep their social place at the feet of ole marse. for that marse had sacrificed the power of the wesindian whites whom he did not care or need to maitain. they wud have to get along how they cud in the local society
the key here is that to maintain themselves the African derived elites had to supress all westindain excellence. corruption and brown-nosing was the ay forward not excellence, especially if ones inelligence led one to truth and intent to seek real westindain develiopment. that was life-threatening to anyone who was so bold
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mr. cricket
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corruption is almost every where even south african has its share of problems...u heard of mojola sacking....plus selection is quota based hence piterson trott etc....so u know what i wanted to say is it depends on players more than anything else....i believe west indies will be a dangerous team once again by 2013....strongly believe this probably could happen by 2012 but not late than this for sure
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howzdat
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I found one of the comments made by Mr. Hilaire in the video recording posted on this topic to be quite staggering - i.e. many of the young West Indian cricketers are unable to read or write.
What?! Is this true? If so then no wonder the performance of the team at international level is so shambolic.
Dear parents, presidents, prime ministers and educators what is going? You mean to say that there are boys and girls in the region that are leaving school illiterate? If true, is this an issue that is widespread throughout the region or are we talking about a few individuals who preferred to spend school time playing 'bat and ball' rather than reading and writing?
If we supporters have to take on board this 'education issue' as being one of the off-field issues affecting the team's performance then I am afraid that the problems we see go way beyond cricket! Jesus Christ! Politics and Nation Building are all at stake here.
Personally, I find that this information adds a different twist to the whole matter, so that whether or not Mr. Ottis Gibson goes or stays may ultimately have little bearing on the team's fortunes! If players - OUR BROTHERS, SONS, NEPHEWS, COUSINS - have these sorts of 'limitations' and hurdles to overcome then I am afraid that they will find the rigours of professional sporting life extremely challenging
What?! Is this true? If so then no wonder the performance of the team at international level is so shambolic.
Dear parents, presidents, prime ministers and educators what is going? You mean to say that there are boys and girls in the region that are leaving school illiterate? If true, is this an issue that is widespread throughout the region or are we talking about a few individuals who preferred to spend school time playing 'bat and ball' rather than reading and writing?
If we supporters have to take on board this 'education issue' as being one of the off-field issues affecting the team's performance then I am afraid that the problems we see go way beyond cricket! Jesus Christ! Politics and Nation Building are all at stake here.
Personally, I find that this information adds a different twist to the whole matter, so that whether or not Mr. Ottis Gibson goes or stays may ultimately have little bearing on the team's fortunes! If players - OUR BROTHERS, SONS, NEPHEWS, COUSINS - have these sorts of 'limitations' and hurdles to overcome then I am afraid that they will find the rigours of professional sporting life extremely challenging
Last edited by howzdat on Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:16 am, edited 3 times in total.
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mapoui
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yu see my concern is the survival of people of African descent in he westindies. not only our survival but our full development and prosperity.
THE PATH TAKEN BY THE AFRICAN DERIVED ELITE IN THE WESTINDIES SINCE INDEPENCE IS TOXIC TO THE INTEREST OF THE WESTINDIES AS WHOLE...AND TO THE INTERESTS OF AFRICAN DERIVED ORDINARY WESTINDIANS IN PARTICULAR
a great Afrcan/westindian scholar, DR Tony Martin some years ago posed the question: is the african derived Trinidain an endangered species?
well its a great question becuase in independence the african interest in the westindes under the negative pressure of the path taken by our elites has so eroded, that the true material condtions of not only Trinidadians of African descent but of the Afrcab derived in all the westindies, is terible indeed.
the interest of westindian of african descent could not have been addressed by submitting the region to the british in retreat at independence. we had to strike out on our own and build our nation according to genral need. we had to build an inclusive society that addressed the needs of the whole nation not just one small elitist section.
Hunte and Hilaire feel thay are doing soemthing good but their minds are those of the african elites who could not think straught from the start. Hunte and Hilaire are pushing incomptence while suppressing the brillaint westindians..especially those of African descent. they are making no room for expansion that would bring in all... and especially to train and select excellent westindians of african descent.
in doing do they are killing the game and our part in it. but they way they think and administer is part and parcel of the elitist orientation of subsrvience they grew up in and inculcated in those like themselves
THE PATH TAKEN BY THE AFRICAN DERIVED ELITE IN THE WESTINDIES SINCE INDEPENCE IS TOXIC TO THE INTEREST OF THE WESTINDIES AS WHOLE...AND TO THE INTERESTS OF AFRICAN DERIVED ORDINARY WESTINDIANS IN PARTICULAR
a great Afrcan/westindian scholar, DR Tony Martin some years ago posed the question: is the african derived Trinidain an endangered species?
well its a great question becuase in independence the african interest in the westindes under the negative pressure of the path taken by our elites has so eroded, that the true material condtions of not only Trinidadians of African descent but of the Afrcab derived in all the westindies, is terible indeed.
the interest of westindian of african descent could not have been addressed by submitting the region to the british in retreat at independence. we had to strike out on our own and build our nation according to genral need. we had to build an inclusive society that addressed the needs of the whole nation not just one small elitist section.
Hunte and Hilaire feel thay are doing soemthing good but their minds are those of the african elites who could not think straught from the start. Hunte and Hilaire are pushing incomptence while suppressing the brillaint westindians..especially those of African descent. they are making no room for expansion that would bring in all... and especially to train and select excellent westindians of african descent.
in doing do they are killing the game and our part in it. but they way they think and administer is part and parcel of the elitist orientation of subsrvience they grew up in and inculcated in those like themselves
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mr. cricket
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- Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:24 am
@howzdat
education is not that much of a problem ask pakistan team...no one is graduate apart from wicket keeper and misbah
@mapoui
yeah incompetence or i would say mismanagement is hurting WI
education is not that much of a problem ask pakistan team...no one is graduate apart from wicket keeper and misbah
@mapoui
yeah incompetence or i would say mismanagement is hurting WI
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mapoui
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- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:07 pm
all of this and more is why I argued fro the start that only social revolution could and would lead to a re-energising of our cricket.
the whole society, from the top down thinks like the wesindian elite..and that intellecutal orientation is toxic to westindian inetersts.
only its opposite, the interest of the westindian people, ordinary folk as it really is, codified and organised and efe4cted by a general social movement that takes over and becomes dominant in the westindies can lead to the general progress critical for the region to move forward in peace inclusion, properity... and not internecine class and ethnic confrontation.
that is the real point we are at in the westindies! that is what I believe the cricket example demonstrates.
it is not only cricket alone thats involved..but cricket demonstrates where the whole society is at. we cant fix cricket unless the whole society is fixed.
i have been arguing that from the time I stated posting some years ago. itwas true then and it is true now..and will likely remain true until the peole get up and change it
the whole society, from the top down thinks like the wesindian elite..and that intellecutal orientation is toxic to westindian inetersts.
only its opposite, the interest of the westindian people, ordinary folk as it really is, codified and organised and efe4cted by a general social movement that takes over and becomes dominant in the westindies can lead to the general progress critical for the region to move forward in peace inclusion, properity... and not internecine class and ethnic confrontation.
that is the real point we are at in the westindies! that is what I believe the cricket example demonstrates.
it is not only cricket alone thats involved..but cricket demonstrates where the whole society is at. we cant fix cricket unless the whole society is fixed.
i have been arguing that from the time I stated posting some years ago. itwas true then and it is true now..and will likely remain true until the peole get up and change it