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I really wish Misinfo had listed Gerry Alexander in their nominations! seems like disrespect for a truly great westindian keeper/batsman and captain, who made an outstanding contribution to westindies cricket..to westindian sports gnerally, as player and leader.
why would Misinfo list nominations, from among whom the greatest would be selected anyway?
seems like fixing the process even if they nominated most of the great players.
it should have been 'select the greatest westindian team of all time' and leave it to the judges and the people who cared to respond....period.
these could have roamed over the realm of westindies history looking for answers, having a terrific time in the process...instesded of just walking through Misinfo's nominations.
all would then have had the entire list of greats to select from...not just whom Misinfo think and deem the greatest.
I dont respect this team due to Misinfo's manipulation. a half decent effort but deserving of little or no respect, because of the manipuulation.
Misinfo is just like the BCCT and the ICC. Misinfo wishes to control everything, even our very thought processes by asking you to do something and actually outlining the limits of its content, and all you must do then is regurgitate.
misinfo is attempting to prepare its responders and readership to accept Misinfo's participation in their very thought processes, getting them ready to be told what to say and do when they are asked a question...a form of manufacturing consent.
piss on Misinfo! I will make my own all time greatest team!
Misinfo's Alltime Westindies Team...A manipulation!
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mapoui
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- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:07 pm
My greatest westindies 11 of all time
1) Roy Fredericks.....an absolutely fearless batsman with all round skills that rendered him potent against spin or pace, an effective and prolific batsman in all conditions, all over the world. Fredericks ultimate stats reflecst a player who perhaps starteda bit late, did not hate the time therefore to amass what Haynes and Greenidge did ultimately.
2) Gordon Greenidge...a brilliant, creative, powerful and productive batsman who began with an achilles against real, raw pace but mastered this flaw completely in due course. like Fredericks Greenidge also was a master of spin and conditions to flourish wherevere he played...and against all opposition.
the middle selects itself in:
Headley
Richards
Lara
Sobers
7) Misinfos argument in favour of Hendricks is right. Hendricks was one of the greatest keepes cricket has produced, a most efficient and safe performer who rarely made mistakes, even in the most huge totals against westindies. his concentration was amazing and his physical skills matched-up brilliantly.
Marshall, Holding and Ambrose appear to be hard to argue against but I will hold their selection in abeyance until my thoughts gell on all of the great pacemen including Hall and Griffith. I would want to consider Garner, Roberts, Griffith and Hall in particular with thoughts of inclusion.
and with Gibbs I will also wait a bit for valentine in particular holds great fascination for me. Alfred valentine was a great bowler, a massive spinner of the ball and did as a mere 19-20 year old, amazing things with the ball as reflected in his stats.
both Valentine and Ramadin suffered immensly from the awful, compromising leadership of John Goddard and Jeffery Stollmeyer, westindies captains for most of their careers...and the general dishearening state of westindies cricket, under the undeserving white captains and over all white domination, led by the giant racist Errol Dos Santos in particular.
were this not so the careers of Ram and Val would have been prolonged, far more prolific...and Gibbs would have had to wait much longer for his chance.
today as a result, we would have been considering far different spins careers for inclusion among the greats, had Worrell for example been made westindies captain in 1951 and led the wesindies through to 1963, when he finally retired.
as a bowler of real massive skill, Valentine was probably greater than Gibbs and Ramadin, and I wish to consider him for inclusion as the spinner..only just ahead of Ramadin and Gibbs!
and if I had to make a nominated list I would include the lot over there but add...Basil Butcher for sure, Gerry Alexander, Charlie Davis, Clifford Roach, Joe Small, George John, Herman Griffith and more...
1) Roy Fredericks.....an absolutely fearless batsman with all round skills that rendered him potent against spin or pace, an effective and prolific batsman in all conditions, all over the world. Fredericks ultimate stats reflecst a player who perhaps starteda bit late, did not hate the time therefore to amass what Haynes and Greenidge did ultimately.
2) Gordon Greenidge...a brilliant, creative, powerful and productive batsman who began with an achilles against real, raw pace but mastered this flaw completely in due course. like Fredericks Greenidge also was a master of spin and conditions to flourish wherevere he played...and against all opposition.
the middle selects itself in:
Headley
Richards
Lara
Sobers
7) Misinfos argument in favour of Hendricks is right. Hendricks was one of the greatest keepes cricket has produced, a most efficient and safe performer who rarely made mistakes, even in the most huge totals against westindies. his concentration was amazing and his physical skills matched-up brilliantly.
Marshall, Holding and Ambrose appear to be hard to argue against but I will hold their selection in abeyance until my thoughts gell on all of the great pacemen including Hall and Griffith. I would want to consider Garner, Roberts, Griffith and Hall in particular with thoughts of inclusion.
and with Gibbs I will also wait a bit for valentine in particular holds great fascination for me. Alfred valentine was a great bowler, a massive spinner of the ball and did as a mere 19-20 year old, amazing things with the ball as reflected in his stats.
both Valentine and Ramadin suffered immensly from the awful, compromising leadership of John Goddard and Jeffery Stollmeyer, westindies captains for most of their careers...and the general dishearening state of westindies cricket, under the undeserving white captains and over all white domination, led by the giant racist Errol Dos Santos in particular.
were this not so the careers of Ram and Val would have been prolonged, far more prolific...and Gibbs would have had to wait much longer for his chance.
today as a result, we would have been considering far different spins careers for inclusion among the greats, had Worrell for example been made westindies captain in 1951 and led the wesindies through to 1963, when he finally retired.
as a bowler of real massive skill, Valentine was probably greater than Gibbs and Ramadin, and I wish to consider him for inclusion as the spinner..only just ahead of Ramadin and Gibbs!
and if I had to make a nominated list I would include the lot over there but add...Basil Butcher for sure, Gerry Alexander, Charlie Davis, Clifford Roach, Joe Small, George John, Herman Griffith and more...
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BallOil
- Posts: 19409
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mapoui
- Posts: 8507
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:07 pm
that kanhai and the W's cyar mek an alltime westindies 11 is tough. but there many greats to choose from.
when it comes to keeping you would have to have seen Hendricks to believe Bally. nobody..bar none..was better than Hendricks.
Hendricks is not a personal favorite of mine as an official since his retirement but in the few games he played he was outstanding. he did many things that are probably records like flawless innings in which he never made even the semblance of mistakes...against huge scores too.
he was brilliant against both pace and spin and nutten got past him. the most difficult work looked easy for him. like Hall griff and gibbs..."man look bring something hard fuh mih to try eh"
it was like that with Hendricks as a keeper and the world knew it. there were none at his time in the whole world better than he. thats why he is automatic when it comes to the westindian alltime keeper, despite 20+ tests.
after Alexander Hendricks was automatic, but he suffered many unfortunate injuries between 1962 and 1966, letting in jokers like Deryck Murray who had a magical summer in 1963...Ivan Mendonza who had an excellent debut in 1962 after an Hendricks injury then disappeared...and David Allan, who had a streaking- star Murray to deal with.
when it comes to keeping you would have to have seen Hendricks to believe Bally. nobody..bar none..was better than Hendricks.
Hendricks is not a personal favorite of mine as an official since his retirement but in the few games he played he was outstanding. he did many things that are probably records like flawless innings in which he never made even the semblance of mistakes...against huge scores too.
he was brilliant against both pace and spin and nutten got past him. the most difficult work looked easy for him. like Hall griff and gibbs..."man look bring something hard fuh mih to try eh"
it was like that with Hendricks as a keeper and the world knew it. there were none at his time in the whole world better than he. thats why he is automatic when it comes to the westindian alltime keeper, despite 20+ tests.
after Alexander Hendricks was automatic, but he suffered many unfortunate injuries between 1962 and 1966, letting in jokers like Deryck Murray who had a magical summer in 1963...Ivan Mendonza who had an excellent debut in 1962 after an Hendricks injury then disappeared...and David Allan, who had a streaking- star Murray to deal with.
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mapoui
- Posts: 8507
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:07 pm
Shive..... as an alltime great?
great he is for sure but greater than who...the W's, Lloyd, Kanhai!
we talking batting here.
shive is very orthodox who has developed an orthodox accumulative approach that is outstanding but is it a better accumultaive style than gavaskars for example?
is shive a better accumulator or runs that the great accumulators Gavaskar, Dravid etc.
when it comes to batting as it is with keeping for example we looking at players who knew what batting is, had basic orthodx techniques to the extreme..down pat so to speak...and on that basis, in game situations in which all was on the line adapted to the conditions and to the bowelrs they face to create shots score and defence to keep the great bowlers out.
in this way great batsmen time and again DOMINATED bowling attacks, at times very great bowling attacks, tore them apart, scored and scored and scored and got out when they were tired or got fed up
when you talk about defence it was amazing to see Kanhai play defensively when the game warranted ..just about impregnable.
it was the same with sobers, lara, Viv. shive to play amazing defence. but that is shives major suit. he can attack too but has done so infrequently in his career. shive has never DOMINATED an attack time and again, as Lara did Lanka..indeed has done to all countries, in all countries, against even Murali and Vass
the great batsmen while they defended if they needed to were calculating all the time as to how to turn the tables and DOMINATE...and turn it they did often.
see Kanhai and Sobers DOMINATE the Oz...I mean DOMINATE!...cut deh arse and establish mental and physical domination over them, so that they were hitting 44444s at will almost, by the end of it. great bowlers like Davidson and Benaud looking for place to pitch the ball so deh wun get hit fuh 4444444.
that is what great batting is..great skill, absolutely delicate and deliscious risk-taking....going out to bat with the intent and confidence to exactly what hey accomplished..the murder of a bowling attack.
where did our people get that from we westindians..to go out with the intent of putting those great whiote countries to the sword on the cricket fields, man conceiving of shots to play and executing them..shots that the manuals said were not possible.
westindian great batsmen on the most superb basic techniques did just that..create what was thought to be impossible and did it consistently. risks were involved at all times..any miscalculation meant the loss of wickets. but great natural skill, physical co-ordination, determination to dominate and not be dominated, hard-work, brains and flair paid off
at times a great batsman does not even have to score a ton to have established such domination over an attack.
when a batsman does it like Viv did to england in 1976...291..it was an incredible thing to watch...a bowling attack absolutely, totally, compehensively beaten, defeated, shorn of all its skill, tricks, tactics, strategems..all detected and beaten to hell by the batsman, leaving them with nothing to do but trundle through to a cacaphony of shots all around the wicket, until the batsman, tired and fed up gives it up..or a declaration is made.
most times westindian great batsmen did not have to turn any tables for they set the table instead, from the start to the end of their innings. it was the bowlers who had to find defence not great westindian batsmen.
shive is already listed among the westindian greats! but he will have a very hard time making the alltime 11!
my list of great westindian batsmen in some kind of order starts with Brian lara who so far is the greatest batsman in the history of the game.
Lara is followed by Headley, Viv, Sobers and Kanhai. then Walcott whom I have as the best of the W's, Worrell and Weekes.... Greenidge, Shive, Lloyd, Kalliecharran, Fredericks, Haynes, Richardson, Butcher, Nurse, Stollmeyer, George Challenor, Rowe, Gomes, Rae, Charlie Davis.
there is a middling group that would contain players like Logie, Shillingford, Gayle and Sarwan..who are good but as in the case of Logie and Shillingford had difficutlies and bridges to cross they never quite made it across.
Shive will be among the greatest but I cant ever see him beating out the players already listed ahead of him in consideration for a greatest westindian 11. he has a line of mighty batsmen to beat out as CLR might have described it!
great he is for sure but greater than who...the W's, Lloyd, Kanhai!
we talking batting here.
shive is very orthodox who has developed an orthodox accumulative approach that is outstanding but is it a better accumultaive style than gavaskars for example?
is shive a better accumulator or runs that the great accumulators Gavaskar, Dravid etc.
when it comes to batting as it is with keeping for example we looking at players who knew what batting is, had basic orthodx techniques to the extreme..down pat so to speak...and on that basis, in game situations in which all was on the line adapted to the conditions and to the bowelrs they face to create shots score and defence to keep the great bowlers out.
in this way great batsmen time and again DOMINATED bowling attacks, at times very great bowling attacks, tore them apart, scored and scored and scored and got out when they were tired or got fed up
when you talk about defence it was amazing to see Kanhai play defensively when the game warranted ..just about impregnable.
it was the same with sobers, lara, Viv. shive to play amazing defence. but that is shives major suit. he can attack too but has done so infrequently in his career. shive has never DOMINATED an attack time and again, as Lara did Lanka..indeed has done to all countries, in all countries, against even Murali and Vass
the great batsmen while they defended if they needed to were calculating all the time as to how to turn the tables and DOMINATE...and turn it they did often.
see Kanhai and Sobers DOMINATE the Oz...I mean DOMINATE!...cut deh arse and establish mental and physical domination over them, so that they were hitting 44444s at will almost, by the end of it. great bowlers like Davidson and Benaud looking for place to pitch the ball so deh wun get hit fuh 4444444.
that is what great batting is..great skill, absolutely delicate and deliscious risk-taking....going out to bat with the intent and confidence to exactly what hey accomplished..the murder of a bowling attack.
where did our people get that from we westindians..to go out with the intent of putting those great whiote countries to the sword on the cricket fields, man conceiving of shots to play and executing them..shots that the manuals said were not possible.
westindian great batsmen on the most superb basic techniques did just that..create what was thought to be impossible and did it consistently. risks were involved at all times..any miscalculation meant the loss of wickets. but great natural skill, physical co-ordination, determination to dominate and not be dominated, hard-work, brains and flair paid off
at times a great batsman does not even have to score a ton to have established such domination over an attack.
when a batsman does it like Viv did to england in 1976...291..it was an incredible thing to watch...a bowling attack absolutely, totally, compehensively beaten, defeated, shorn of all its skill, tricks, tactics, strategems..all detected and beaten to hell by the batsman, leaving them with nothing to do but trundle through to a cacaphony of shots all around the wicket, until the batsman, tired and fed up gives it up..or a declaration is made.
most times westindian great batsmen did not have to turn any tables for they set the table instead, from the start to the end of their innings. it was the bowlers who had to find defence not great westindian batsmen.
shive is already listed among the westindian greats! but he will have a very hard time making the alltime 11!
my list of great westindian batsmen in some kind of order starts with Brian lara who so far is the greatest batsman in the history of the game.
Lara is followed by Headley, Viv, Sobers and Kanhai. then Walcott whom I have as the best of the W's, Worrell and Weekes.... Greenidge, Shive, Lloyd, Kalliecharran, Fredericks, Haynes, Richardson, Butcher, Nurse, Stollmeyer, George Challenor, Rowe, Gomes, Rae, Charlie Davis.
there is a middling group that would contain players like Logie, Shillingford, Gayle and Sarwan..who are good but as in the case of Logie and Shillingford had difficutlies and bridges to cross they never quite made it across.
Shive will be among the greatest but I cant ever see him beating out the players already listed ahead of him in consideration for a greatest westindian 11. he has a line of mighty batsmen to beat out as CLR might have described it!
Last edited by mapoui on Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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BallOil
- Posts: 19409
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:12 pm
look chap ..this time nah langtime eh 
Look at Shiv records (see link above) and compare it with teh rest...
Shiv has one of the fastest Test centuries ...
Highest average @ #6 in test ...than all the greats in the world that eva played cricket.
Shiv batted the longest innings than all them rass numerous times eh
Shiv delivered when WI needed him in the highest successful run chase (418) in TEST history against Aus the #1 team.
Read Shiv records eh compliments of Bally
Look at Shiv records (see link above) and compare it with teh rest...
Shiv has one of the fastest Test centuries ...
Highest average @ #6 in test ...than all the greats in the world that eva played cricket.
Shiv batted the longest innings than all them rass numerous times eh
Shiv delivered when WI needed him in the highest successful run chase (418) in TEST history against Aus the #1 team.
Read Shiv records eh compliments of Bally
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mapoui
- Posts: 8507
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:07 pm
BallOil wrote:look chap ..this time nah langtime eh
Look at Shiv records (see link above) and compare it with teh rest...
Shiv has one of the fastest Test centuries ...
Highest average @ #6 in test ...than all the greats in the world that eva played cricket.
Shiv batted the longest innings than all them rass numerous times eh
Shiv delivered when WI needed him in the highest successful run chase (418) in TEST history against Aus the #1 team.
Read Shiv records eh compliments of Bally
well! pick yuh own greatest 11 and hang it up. who stopping you!