It's clear that his game is not suited to being a senior opening partner and a 35 ave is far from world class. Historically speaking, batsmen who fail to top 40 having played 20 tests never do.
Can he somehow buck that trend
Kraigg Brathwaite
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Gils
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has now played 20 tests, his average, 35.53 after 40 Inns, is below that of confirmed international mediocrity Marlon Samuels. 35.92
It's clear that his game is not suited to being a senior opening partner and a 35 ave is far from world class. Historically speaking, batsmen who fail to top 40 having played 20 tests never do.
Can he somehow buck that trend
It's clear that his game is not suited to being a senior opening partner and a 35 ave is far from world class. Historically speaking, batsmen who fail to top 40 having played 20 tests never do.
Can he somehow buck that trend
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mikesiva
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The reality is that the COTR are just not good enough. Shiv left some big shoes that none of them can fill and even mediocre batsmen like Samuels are way superior to these force ripe youngsters. Taylor is still the best bowler in the side. When those two Jamaicans call it a day the test team will sink even further. Quite frankly there no good test players among the young Caribbean cricketers out there.
but there are good t20 players out there among the young Caribbean talent...
we have played five tests this season...three against England and two against Australia. So how did the COTR fare in those five tests?
1) Kraig - five tests 215 runs for an average of 21. Very poor...even Devon Smith fared better this season with 93 runs for an average of 23.
2) Chandrika - no runs average nought. Lol! Nothing more to add....
3) Darren bravo - five tests 286 runs at an average of 29. He is heading towards mediocrity and in a couple of years his average will be similar to Samuels. Mediocrity needs company and bravo will willingly provide it....
4) shai hope -three tests 92 runs average 15. Hopeless! If shai is the future then West Indies test cricket has no hope....
5) Shane dowrich - two tests 102 runs average 25...fooled some people including me that he could bat. But he is no better than ramdin so why swap black dog for monkey?
6) Blackwood - five tests 376 runs average 47...looks good compared to the crap around him. A candle in the darkness...
7) Jason holder - five tests 264 runs average 44...better than most of the overrated COTR batsmen so holder should bat at six. He keeps running out of partners at eight. He provided useful support with 11 wickets from 10 innings but his bowling is just not good enough to be a part of a four man attack. He will never take a five-fer....
8) permaul - six wickets from four innings...like Benn not good enough. Time to call up the next left arm spinner...Nikita miller.
9) roach - seven wickets from six innings...not good enough compared to Taylor 16 wickets from eight innings. Roach is a shadow of the bowler he once was. The problem is that Gabriel is just as bad...seven wickets from six innings.
10) Bishooo - 10 wickets from four innings. Excellent!
Blackwood holder and Bishooo are the only bright sparks in the future test team. Lets face it...our test team is doomed to languish between seven and eight in the rankings with this poor mediocre COTR. There is no future with these poor players....
however the good news is that we have a world class t20 team...that is the only future that looks bright for West Indies cricket.
but there are good t20 players out there among the young Caribbean talent...
we have played five tests this season...three against England and two against Australia. So how did the COTR fare in those five tests?
1) Kraig - five tests 215 runs for an average of 21. Very poor...even Devon Smith fared better this season with 93 runs for an average of 23.
2) Chandrika - no runs average nought. Lol! Nothing more to add....
3) Darren bravo - five tests 286 runs at an average of 29. He is heading towards mediocrity and in a couple of years his average will be similar to Samuels. Mediocrity needs company and bravo will willingly provide it....
4) shai hope -three tests 92 runs average 15. Hopeless! If shai is the future then West Indies test cricket has no hope....
5) Shane dowrich - two tests 102 runs average 25...fooled some people including me that he could bat. But he is no better than ramdin so why swap black dog for monkey?
6) Blackwood - five tests 376 runs average 47...looks good compared to the crap around him. A candle in the darkness...
7) Jason holder - five tests 264 runs average 44...better than most of the overrated COTR batsmen so holder should bat at six. He keeps running out of partners at eight. He provided useful support with 11 wickets from 10 innings but his bowling is just not good enough to be a part of a four man attack. He will never take a five-fer....
8) permaul - six wickets from four innings...like Benn not good enough. Time to call up the next left arm spinner...Nikita miller.
9) roach - seven wickets from six innings...not good enough compared to Taylor 16 wickets from eight innings. Roach is a shadow of the bowler he once was. The problem is that Gabriel is just as bad...seven wickets from six innings.
10) Bishooo - 10 wickets from four innings. Excellent!
Blackwood holder and Bishooo are the only bright sparks in the future test team. Lets face it...our test team is doomed to languish between seven and eight in the rankings with this poor mediocre COTR. There is no future with these poor players....
however the good news is that we have a world class t20 team...that is the only future that looks bright for West Indies cricket.
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Gils
- Posts: 3469
- Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:39 pm
The fast bowlers we have in R4D have not prepared the batsmen for top international bowling.
To see all the Aus bowlers move an swing the ball more than our own, in foreign conditions, was a true indicator of the gap in ability, their batsmen moving their feet to play spin while ours stayed back in the crease was also very instructive.
KB, who seems to be intent on staying back to spin and pace equally, has never had to face such a skilled unit, the nearest he might get to Starc or Johnson in domestic cricket is Cotterrell. Just blocking and deflecting alone will not win match's and doe's not lend itself to the role of a senior opener.
Chandrika was sacrificial, my heart go's out to the yout, the pressure of the situation must have been enormous. Pimped by the WICBC.
From what I've seen Hope and Dowrich haven't convinced me of any international pedigree while their domestic numbers pretty much echo that. They, like KB, have never faced anything like Hazelwood, Starc and Johnson regionally and in all likely hood will struggle internationally until they have done so.
And they like Blackwood, who brings much to the table, could all benefit from the presence of an experienced middle order batsman to help guide them thru the early stages of their international careers
Holder hasn't let himself down this summer and as Dujon and Bishop suggested, needs clear aims and objectives to work towards ( some competition from Andre Russell would have helped ).
He wont take fifers true but offers a more plausible proposition than Gabriel does as a strike bowler or Sammy ever did as a fill in.
He was also more dependable then guaranteed starter Roach. I see him as 2nd change/no 6 - in this team.
I don't think these selectors will ever embrace spin so Bishoo, ICC emerging cricketer of 2010, will remain an afterthought regardless of performance.
To see all the Aus bowlers move an swing the ball more than our own, in foreign conditions, was a true indicator of the gap in ability, their batsmen moving their feet to play spin while ours stayed back in the crease was also very instructive.
KB, who seems to be intent on staying back to spin and pace equally, has never had to face such a skilled unit, the nearest he might get to Starc or Johnson in domestic cricket is Cotterrell. Just blocking and deflecting alone will not win match's and doe's not lend itself to the role of a senior opener.
Chandrika was sacrificial, my heart go's out to the yout, the pressure of the situation must have been enormous. Pimped by the WICBC.
From what I've seen Hope and Dowrich haven't convinced me of any international pedigree while their domestic numbers pretty much echo that. They, like KB, have never faced anything like Hazelwood, Starc and Johnson regionally and in all likely hood will struggle internationally until they have done so.
And they like Blackwood, who brings much to the table, could all benefit from the presence of an experienced middle order batsman to help guide them thru the early stages of their international careers
Holder hasn't let himself down this summer and as Dujon and Bishop suggested, needs clear aims and objectives to work towards ( some competition from Andre Russell would have helped ).
He wont take fifers true but offers a more plausible proposition than Gabriel does as a strike bowler or Sammy ever did as a fill in.
He was also more dependable then guaranteed starter Roach. I see him as 2nd change/no 6 - in this team.
I don't think these selectors will ever embrace spin so Bishoo, ICC emerging cricketer of 2010, will remain an afterthought regardless of performance.
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AFRO
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LOL it's funny how this same d/ckhead is prepared to judge these KIDS after five or less tests but isn't prepared to do the same with Shiv AFTER ELEVEN STRAIGHT FAILURES WHERE HE AVERAGED 16?mikesiva wrote:The reality is that the COTR are just not good enough. Shiv left some big shoes that none of them can fill and even mediocre batsmen like Samuels are way superior to these force ripe youngsters. Taylor is still the best bowler in the side. When those two Jamaicans call it a day the test team will sink even further. Quite frankly there no good test players among the young Caribbean cricketers out there.
but there are good t20 players out there among the young Caribbean talent...
we have played five tests this season...three against England and two against Australia. So how did the COTR fare in those five tests?
1) Kraig - five tests 215 runs for an average of 21. Very poor...even Devon Smith fared better this season with 93 runs for an average of 23.
2) Chandrika - no runs average nought. Lol! Nothing more to add....
3) Darren bravo - five tests 286 runs at an average of 29. He is heading towards mediocrity and in a couple of years his average will be similar to Samuels. Mediocrity needs company and bravo will willingly provide it....
4) shai hope -three tests 92 runs average 15. Hopeless! If shai is the future then West Indies test cricket has no hope....
5) Shane dowrich - two tests 102 runs average 25...fooled some people including me that he could bat. But he is no better than ramdin so why swap black dog for monkey?
6) Blackwood - five tests 376 runs average 47...looks good compared to the crap around him. A candle in the darkness...
7) Jason holder - five tests 264 runs average 44...better than most of the overrated COTR batsmen so holder should bat at six. He keeps running out of partners at eight. He provided useful support with 11 wickets from 10 innings but his bowling is just not good enough to be a part of a four man attack. He will never take a five-fer....
8) permaul - six wickets from four innings...like Benn not good enough. Time to call up the next left arm spinner...Nikita miller.
9) roach - seven wickets from six innings...not good enough compared to Taylor 16 wickets from eight innings. Roach is a shadow of the bowler he once was. The problem is that Gabriel is just as bad...seven wickets from six innings.
10) Bishooo - 10 wickets from four innings. Excellent!
Blackwood holder and Bishooo are the only bright sparks in the future test team. Lets face it...our test team is doomed to languish between seven and eight in the rankings with this poor mediocre COTR. There is no future with these poor players....
however the good news is that we have a world class t20 team...that is the only future that looks bright for West Indies cricket.
and it's also funny how he wants to ridicule Kraigg who scored four tons in his last four series before this one and yet he was calling for Pagon and Simmons to play test cricket? Both who's averages are below 18 in test cricket? 
And don't hold your breath on Miller either...WARRICAN next in line
.
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mapoui2
- Posts: 2106
- Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:19 pm
the Paint precedent is Greenidge!
Greenidge emerged in 1974 in India with a test ton on debut, and another one later on...and lots of runs in his first series. then in 1975 he ran into Lillee and Thompson and was totally exposed by great speed of high quality.
they had to drop Greenidge to protect him but he caught up later on.
Paint in my estimation is good enough catch up and score against any bowling... but to do so he has to have greater exposure to top class international bowling.
hope has shown some skill..Dowrich too. Chandrika was sacrifice to the cricket gods who may have wanted so west indian blood. the blood the gods really want is that of Skameron, Lloyd and the wicb administration. they skillfully keep substituting others
but god is no fool and he is good according to the hymn. he will get them
Greenidge emerged in 1974 in India with a test ton on debut, and another one later on...and lots of runs in his first series. then in 1975 he ran into Lillee and Thompson and was totally exposed by great speed of high quality.
they had to drop Greenidge to protect him but he caught up later on.
Paint in my estimation is good enough catch up and score against any bowling... but to do so he has to have greater exposure to top class international bowling.
hope has shown some skill..Dowrich too. Chandrika was sacrifice to the cricket gods who may have wanted so west indian blood. the blood the gods really want is that of Skameron, Lloyd and the wicb administration. they skillfully keep substituting others
but god is no fool and he is good according to the hymn. he will get them
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mapoui2
- Posts: 2106
- Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:19 pm
this is not a really great Oz team but what they did was to expose the wicb product for the crap it is and AFROs constant song about seeds blooming.
AFRO has been singing that song, accompanied by COTR for more than 5 years now. but the seeds burst out of the ground and die soon after.
and west indies cricket is of a very low quality and declining on that low base... not improving. the Oz just demonstrated that.
AFRO has been singing that song, accompanied by COTR for more than 5 years now. but the seeds burst out of the ground and die soon after.
and west indies cricket is of a very low quality and declining on that low base... not improving. the Oz just demonstrated that.
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Gils
- Posts: 3469
- Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:39 pm
I don't imagine Greenidge ever averaged 9.00 against Aus or 7.50 vs Pakistan.the Paint precedent is Greenidge!
He also had an excellent cut shot, and punished short pitched bowling with hooks and pulls while never facing Bangladesh.
Of Brathwaite's 40 Inns, 8/20% have been against Bangladesh, he averages 58.14 against them.
Against England, India and South Africa he averages mid 30's. Those numbers wont move West Indies past 7 in the rankings so are you unconsciously suggesting the BWI should protect him
That catch up, as far as I can see, has already taken place. He had an excellent reintroduction back into test cricket after his first difficult 11 match's, from 12 - 21 tests his average went from 21 past 40, only to currently rest below Samuels own.Paint in my estimation is good enough catch up
He is known for his patience and ability to occupy the crease but is yet to bat through an Inns of more than 60 overs. It's a game of numbers, the numbers say he's toast/ a hound after 20 tests.
What my two eyes show me is he learned to develop his game and expand his basic scoring zones, his multiple hundreds testify to that. But with the expansion of his game has come a growth in his faults. Many times he is now caught fishing, outside off, the old paint he aint.
Greenidge
. You don't find Greenidge stuck on the crease.-
mikesiva
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The big difference between Greenidge and Paint is that the former had a better FC career, including playing at Hampshire, in conditions very different from the Caribbean. Thus, I don't take it as a given that Kraigg's career will follow that of Greenidge....
Here's cricinfo's assessment of the performance of our players in the aussie series alone, and I've just quoted the worst performers:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies ... 88163.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"3
Kraigg Brathwaite
Devoid of footwork and hurried by the Australians' pace, Brathwaite looked worryingly out of his depth for someone who has been installed as a long-term opening batsman. On swifter Australian pitches, such problems may well be exacerbated further.
Darren Bravo
The biggest disappointment of the series. Despite his obvious talent, Bravo was hemmed in and made to look ponderous by the Australian bowlers and their disciplined lines. Unlike his mentor and hero Brian Lara, Bravo was unable to get through the tough periods and make the bowlers come back for more spells. Without Shivnarine Chanderpaul around anymore, Bravo must do more than this.
Kemar Roach
Three years ago Roach was a constant threat to Australia, but this time looked a bowler much diminished. Lacking his former pace, he was also less accurate, and failed completely to support the excellent Taylor on day one in Jamaica. Capable of so much better than he showed here.
Rajendra Chandrika
A first-class average of 26 does not inspire much confidence in an opening batsman, and Chandrika was set a most difficult task to step up. A pair on debut will make for painful reading, but plenty of other batsmen have dealt with that ignominy before improving. It remains to be seen whether Chandrika will get that chance."
Afro, you seem to have missed it, so I underlined the main point for you....AFRO wrote:LOL it's funny how this same d/ckhead is prepared to judge these KIDS after five or less tests but isn't prepared to do the same with Shiv AFTER ELEVEN STRAIGHT FAILURES WHERE HE AVERAGED 16?mikesiva wrote:The reality is that the COTR are just not good enough. Shiv left some big shoes that none of them can fill and even mediocre batsmen like Samuels are way superior to these force ripe youngsters. Taylor is still the best bowler in the side. When those two Jamaicans call it a day the test team will sink even further. Quite frankly there no good test players among the young Caribbean cricketers out there.
Blackwood holder and Bishooo are the only bright sparks in the future test team. Lets face it...our test team is doomed to languish between seven and eight in the rankings with this poor mediocre COTR. There is no future with these poor players....
however the good news is that we have a world class t20 team...that is the only future that looks bright for West Indies cricket.
And don't hold your breath on Miller either...WARRICAN next in line
Here's cricinfo's assessment of the performance of our players in the aussie series alone, and I've just quoted the worst performers:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies ... 88163.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"3
Kraigg Brathwaite
Devoid of footwork and hurried by the Australians' pace, Brathwaite looked worryingly out of his depth for someone who has been installed as a long-term opening batsman. On swifter Australian pitches, such problems may well be exacerbated further.
Darren Bravo
The biggest disappointment of the series. Despite his obvious talent, Bravo was hemmed in and made to look ponderous by the Australian bowlers and their disciplined lines. Unlike his mentor and hero Brian Lara, Bravo was unable to get through the tough periods and make the bowlers come back for more spells. Without Shivnarine Chanderpaul around anymore, Bravo must do more than this.
Kemar Roach
Three years ago Roach was a constant threat to Australia, but this time looked a bowler much diminished. Lacking his former pace, he was also less accurate, and failed completely to support the excellent Taylor on day one in Jamaica. Capable of so much better than he showed here.
Rajendra Chandrika
A first-class average of 26 does not inspire much confidence in an opening batsman, and Chandrika was set a most difficult task to step up. A pair on debut will make for painful reading, but plenty of other batsmen have dealt with that ignominy before improving. It remains to be seen whether Chandrika will get that chance."